To expect teachers to be clever?

[CJ2010]

I was visiting a friend, who has a 12 year old DC and she was telling me how unhappy she was about the school and her DC's education, or lack of. She showed me her child's workbook that contained comments from the teacher. My friend is getting really concerned because her DC's spelling and grammar mistakes are not being picked up by the teacher. She then told me to have a read through and to take a close look at the teachers comments, I did, and they were littered with spelling errors and poor grammar.

It got me thinking. I know a couple of teachers; we all went to school together and are still mates now. One is a primary school teacher, the other secondary. Both teachers only managed to get a Grade C for Maths at GCSE. One of them also got a few Grade D's in other subjects (not English or Science). IMO, GCSE's are a basic qualification and being taught up to GCSE level only really gives a broad, general knowledge of a subject. If they are only coming out as average / or below at this level, regardless of subject, are they really qualified to educate the next generation? They are not very clever are they?

I fear, that this this average educational ability amongst techers is quite common and wide spread. My DC's have yet to start school, but it is worrying for the future. AIBU?

Ah bollocks

The sooner Gove sacks us all the better

Because there are thousands of much, much cleverer people just queuing up to take my job....

It is also different in Scotland and England. In Scotland you must have a degree in the subject to teach it at secondary level. Think degree in chemistry to teach chemistry, however in England your degree does not have to be specialist. Also remember cover supervisors are not actually fully qualified teachers so your child could be being taught by someone who only has GCSE's and no further qualifications if their teacher is absent. FT

"Trainee teachers do fail these very basic tests and some have to repeat them several times!"

But do any actually fail or are they just allowed to keep taking the test until they scrape a pass in something they clearly struggle with?

Einstein was dyslexic!

I do feel sorry for the people my age who had my MIL covering for GCSE maths though. She was a reception teacher and no way near qualified to teach maths at any level, let alone 15-16 year olds. Her own maths skills are appalling too.

"- I wouldn't necessarily expect grammar and spelling to be corrected in all work as sometimes it is better to allow some errors and praise the content"

In the nicest possible way - bollocks!

Oh I am going to upset everyone now..........
Teachers do not have to be qualified. They can be employed as 'instructors' in the eyes of county council. I know LOTS of unqualified teachers - usually its the case that they work with those children who are AWFUL so they are capable in that way.
You do not have to be qualified to work in a private school.
Lots of qualified staff teach subjects they have not studied. Particularly in my school if they want rid of you......... they push them to breaking point.
Sorry

We don't know that for sure, bejeezus. And we don't know if he'd have been any good teaching primary school.

I get what you're saying, I'm just feeling cautious about it.

Einstein may not have been a good teacher. To me, being a good teacher needs these things:

1. Patience
2. Emotional intelligence
3. Patience
4. Inspirational personality
5. Patience
6. Upbeat person who is interested in life
7. Patience
8. Average intelligence
9. Patience

10. Open mind 11. Patience

Get my drift?

graham - but what do you do if, say, you have a nine year old who has never managed to write more than ten words and who has suddenly produced you a page of writing. Do you scribble over the whole thing in red ink and tell him sternly not to make so many silly mistakes next time - or do you start by saying 'wow, this is great progress!'

There's maybe time to do both? You can praise first and then work on the spelling errors a little later?

I think this is a separate issue, though - how you mark a child's SPAG shouldn't have anything to do with how good your own is, IMO.

I just wrote out a big reply and it went poof

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but just wanted to highlight the changes that are being made to the QTS Skills tests. As pendeen pointed out, it used to be that trainee teachers could re-take the tests as many times as they needed to in order to pass, and perhaps that suggests that some haven't got the required subject knowledge.

However, they are being changed so that student teachers MUST pass within three attempts and have to pay for any retakes. If they fail 3 times, they must wait 24 months before being able to try again.
No more qualified teachers who took 12 attempts to pass their maths and english tests!

FWIW though, I'm a student teacher who got all As and A*s at GCSE, straight Distinctions in BTEC Diploma, and 1sts and 2:1s during my first year of my three year teaching degree.
I suppose that makes me reasonably intelligent, but I have found the mathematics practice skills test HARD. The mental maths is pretty quick, and although I'm perfectly capable of doing the sums, sometimes I'm a split second too slow.

If I failed the test once because of that, should I be banned from teaching despite having good subject knowledge and compassion and empathy with children?

THAT is why trainee teachers are given more than one opportunity to pass.

Dyslexics shouldn't become primary school teachers any more than tone-deaf people should become music teachers or people with motor skills problems should become sports teachers.

It is beyond madness to try to get people who cannot master a specific skill to try to impart it to others.

mega - nah, I got frustrated and stopped reading half-way through

No, I do get your drift.

Yes, I see what you are saying. I feel quite cautious about sweeping statements about dyslexics should never be teachers; and implying that spelling and grammer is the be all and end all

Winston Churchill
Benjamin Zephania
Da Vinci
Richard Branson

The fact that many dyslexics may be brilliant high-achievers has got absolutely nothing to do with the fact that dyslexics shouldn't become primary school teachers.

bonsoir, you've made the basic error of assuming dyslexics cannot master these skills. That's not true.

They CAN and DO master the skills bonsoir...it maybe harder/take them longer/they do it a different way....this will often make them better teachers....dyslexics think outside the box, which is invaluable when going children to learn

Not forgetting, that some of those children will be dyslexic and/or have other learning difficulties

I didn't make that assumption. My issue is that anyone who has any difficulty with spelling/writing (which is the case for all dyslexics) really shouldn't presume to teach those skills to others in a classroom context.

"Einstein was dyslexic!"

So are my mother and my cousin, the latter of whom has a double First from a RG university. And? Like them Einstein didn't teach in a UK school either, did he?

Obviously dyslexic children should not become primary school teachers

I have friends with mild dyslexia and high intelligence and they won't let themselves near their own DCs' homework for fear of the damage they might provoke.

bonsoir, I don't know if you realize how what you're saying sounds - imagine replacing the word 'dyslexics' with, say, 'deaf people' or 'blacks' or 'women' - it'd sound awful, wouldn't it?

I do accept that you didn't know dyslexia doesn't mean quite what you thought (ie., a total inability to master certain skills), but really, that sort of ignorant generalization is what prejudice is all about. It is coming across as quite offensive.

Fgs, yes all teachers are thickie bastards who are determined to fuck up your children's prospects. We deliberately use teriball spelin n grammer because we don't want your dc to be able to get a job in the future due to their poor literacy skills.

It's a lie we are highly qualified. I only have a bronze swimming certificate. This was enough to get me a position as Head of Physics in a state school. I would have needed a mauve swimming certificate though if I wanted to teach in a private school as the standard is so much better.

There is no logic in that, LRD.

Not all dyslexic adults have difficulties with spelling and writing, bonsoir.