To think that sterilising bottles at 7 months is ludicrous...

[ThePerfectFather]

...given that 90% of what she sticks in her gob isn't even close to sterile? Toys, dummies, food - none of it sterile. She sticks her feet in her mouth most of the time, again not sterile. She is actively engaged in jamming anything within reach, or within rolling distance, in her mouth.

So why focus on this mandated "sterilise for a year at least" bullshit? It sounds like the usual crap trotted out by the NHS and the WHO that makes no actual sense when you examine it in a practical sense.

I've been sticking the bottles through the dishwasher to get them nice and clean but on the occasions I've got none clean, I scrub them in hot water and fairy liquid, give them a good rinse, and then that's that. Is this so wrong? How can a bottle be such a bacteria risk, but her Sophie giraffe that she chews on for hours is apparently fair game? I just don't understand my missus and her insistence on sterilising when our baby is surrounded be germs the rest of the time, and she's fine!

Thanks for the replies.

The thing is, I read all about that WHO stuff about how we needed to start making milk with hot water (over 70 degrees I think it was) even though the formula manufacturers pointed out that a lot of the nutrition of the milk is lost at that temperature. And I wondered what was so terrible about baby formula over everything else that she consumes or chews on.

So I looked at the exact effects of the bacteria that is associated with baby formula of all kinds, and it's called "Cronobacter sakazakii". Since 1958, 120 babies have caught this, mostly babies in maternity wards.

Articles such as this... www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-05/bacteria-tied-to-baby-s-death-linked-to-formula-since-1980s.html

...tell the "full" story about how the bacteria grows in infant feed, it's high mortality rate and so on.

To me, the first few paragraphs of the story tell me I have no need to worry about Cronobacter sakazakii. 100 kids since 1958? Globally? I then went and read some reports (again, found via Google) produced by a range of institutions, and read the guidelines. In many cases the reports were being produced by people who though Cronobacter Sakazakii was a problem worth confronting and presented the same figures, with references to where and when the outbreaks were. Again, mostly in hospitals, mostly young infants.

I found it extremely comforting to know that I didn't actually need to bother with all this 70 degrees. Why? Because 120 babies since 1958, WORLDWIDE, means that my chances of dying in a car accident on the way to buy the formula are so much higher that if I even began thinking about it, I wouldn't ever leave the house again. The idea that this is even a story is so ludicrous that it's deserving of nothing but scorn.

So when I read about sterilising bottles, I wonder is it actually worth it when the rest of the time, my baby puts things in her mouth that are far, far, far from sterile.

Surely it's unreasonable to sterilise one thing, but not another? It's like a surgeon only sterilising one of his instruments, but just giving the rest a rinse.

It can be other bacteria that grows from the milk as well. So give them a bloody good clean so you don't run the risk of getting ill.

Would you let your baby eat dog shit? No? Some things are ok, some things are not for her to put in her mouth. It's not that black and white.

The sterilisers used at home don't really sterilise things anyway and as soon as things are removed from whatever you are using to sterilse them they definitely aren't sterile. If there are tiny bits of milk in the bottle teat that would stop the sterilisers from working properly as well so the most important part is ensuring the bottles are washed well.

Yes the perfect father, I agree with you. If the 70 deg thing was that vital, the surely we would be made to actually measure the powder properly rather than wait 30 mins. In some of the documentation I read the infection was caused by poor storage of the bottles. Anyway, I am not going to get into a fight about that, I know many people disagree.
As far as the sterilisation is concerned, some people think that it does not matter to not clean the bottles too well if you sterilise them. In fact it is more important to clean the bottles thoroughly than to sterilise them.
But hey, again, if one has time, it doesn't hurt to follow the instructions. I think that there is the hell of a lot of scaremongering around.

@Iggly
"Would you let your baby eat dog shit? No? Some things are ok, some things are not for her to put in her mouth. It's not that black and white."

Ummm, that's a total strawman. Would I let her eat dogshit? Who would? Do you not think there's kind of a fundamental difference between saying "I don't give a damn if she eats dogshit" and saying "I want to keep washing bottles but not sterilising them"? You're the one making it black and white by saying that I either sterilise, or give my baby dogshit to eat. Make a proper point.

This whole "bacteria in baby formula" thing is kind of bogus. I very, very rarely give her milk that's been made up for a while and sat in the fridge. 99% of her bottles are made up on the spot, so whatever bacteria is in there hasn't had time to do anything before it's in her stomach. As for bacteria loitering on the teets and bottles - how is that worse than the bacteria on all her toys which get washed a hell of a lot less frequently? Should I chase after her, cleaning anything she touches? Does ANYONE do that?

And what happened to that whole "it builds her immune system" thing or was that bullshit too?

Me too baby is 5 months a weaning i sterlise bottles and teats still to be honest i just a bit scared not to hubby keeps trying to get me to chuck it all in the diswasher

The only thing I really have issue with is when the bottles have not been thoroughly cleaned. I know someone who has twins, and honestly, I would offer to make a bottle up or something and I would go through and take a bottle out the sterilizer and there would be old, powdery milk patches inside and out the bottle. I made the point of making sure I gave them a good cleaning "to help out" most days I was there.

I still sterilize my youngest bottles, I just see it as only taking an extra minute to put them in and press a button, the actual thing does the work. I don't carry it around with me though so if I end up at someones house till later than I thought, and not brought another bottle, I will make sure I thoroughly scrub it, rinse it out and let it soak in boiling hot water for 5 minutes. Have done that since about 6 months and never thought anything of it.

But Theperfectfather the bacteria that are on her toys and floor etc are generally environmental bacteria that live commensally and are in the majority harmless

lily the HV said just formula milk.

As I said, it's not like it some kind of hour long chore to bung them in the steriliser. It's a tiny task, and if it helps prevent my DS picking up a potentially life threatening bug, then I'll take the extra 2 mins to put them in the steriliser.

@Fatima I'm not sure that's entirely true. If you're talking about the bacteria in our gut, they certainly live commensally for the most part, but how can the bacteria in powdered milk be worse than whatever I have on my body after going outside?

Anyone coming into the house brings external bacteria and germs which will find their way on to the floor, the furnishings, anything that we touch. We touch our faces all the time and then open doors which hundreds of other people use, we have fingernails and armpits and all kinds of bacteria-friendly places on our bodies.

My wife washes her hands when she comes in from work because she uses the underground, but her hands aren't sterlise when she picks up the baby. I just think that when they are actual babies who never move, stick things in their mouths, and are so fragile that it makes sense because it's POSSIBLE to mitigate risk.

Once they get to 6 months and start being messy little sods, why bother sterilising one thing when their life is basically unhygienic?

I remember when I started weaning DS1, and I asked the HV if I needed to sterlise his bowls/spoons etc. She looked at me like I was mad and asked if I was planning on sterilising his food too. I think it was around this time that I stopped sterilising his cup ( which only ever had water in)

I'd always assumed that you could stop sterilising bottles at the same age, but having read on here about the bacteria in milk, I assume I am wrong I will be the first to admit I know nothing about FF!

I've just read this and feel slightly silly - DD is 17 months, has stage 2 formula because she refuses cows milk (but that's another story) and i'm still sterilising her bottles after they have had a good clean.

I think I do it out of habit but TBH the sterilising unit is massive and I could really do with getting rid of it...maybe i should

Here in the US the paediatrician gave me clear instructions that I was not to sterilize bottles and said it was fine to use fresh tap water to make up formula.

In the hospital they make everyone who is using formula use little pre-mixed bottles which are sterile until the nipple is screwed on. The nurses come by around an hour after you start feeding to ensure they are thrown away. A friend who had a premies was given these by the paediatrician after she left the hospital. My friend used them for a while, I think it was a month past his due date.

I agree with your initial point that most of what your DD puts in her mouth is now not sterile.

I still sterilise my DS's bottles at 1yo (mostly out of habit, admittedly) but I started doing it for this reason:

We tended to leave the house with some milk in a sterilised bottle. If he needed a drink when out, we heated it and served. So we were then left with warm milk, innoculated with my DS's normal mouth-dwelling bugs. Since the bottle was initially sterilised, I felt confident that the only bugs now in the milk were the ones that my DS already had in his mouth. Therefore I would feel happy, when out, to let him have a bit more from that warmed bottle and not worry about him getting a poorly tummy. We would throw it away when we got home though - not worth the risk.

I honestly don't find sterilising much of a hassle and I enjoy the peace of mind :)

Not all the commensal bacteria live in the gut. Staphylococcus epidermidis for example makes up part of the normal human skin flora and is generally harmless apart from exceptional cases in individuals with compromised immune systems.
Cronobacter sakazakii has been reported to have caused fatalities in a number of occassions although it more commonly affects adults health, it is pathogenic where as the vast majority of bacteria we come in to contact with on a daily basis are not pathogenic. Formula milk also provide an optimum media for growth and reproduction of bacteria due to its nutrients.

I'm not saying you are wrong or right to stop sterilising, just merely clarifying the difference in risk of formula milk to toys and the outside world etc

That's the thing, hospital is where most of these outbreak of formula feed bacteria have been because

a) hospitals are generally full of sick people who are covered in 'germs'
b) it's almost impossible to kill all the bacteria, and hospitals are full of them

I completely understand hospitals worrying about Cronobacter etc, not only because it's their job to worry about that sort of thing, but because the babies they DO have staying there tend to be the most vulnerable. Your average premmie baby is far less equipped to cope with bacteria than my 7-month old who has barely had a cold since she was a few weeks old.

@FatimaLovesBread

You seem to know wtf you're talking about, so what is your opinion of sterilising past six months? And what is it that happens at 6 months, or a year, or 2 years, that means that suddenly things don't need to be sterile?

If the bottles are cleaned, and I'm only using a microwave steriliser anyway, what am I really achieving by using it that I can't achieve just with a good hard scrub?

Don't be ridiculous. My point was that some things are ok, some are not. Some things you might be a bit unsure about.

Your point is "why sterilise as she eats everything anyway". So black and white in the sense that there's no point at all as she eats a dirty toy.

Their immune system is much better at 6 months.

At the moment I have no opinion of whether or not to sterilise after six months, I have not been fortunate to reach that point yet. But if/when I get to that point with formula I'll probably do what you do and research the facts and reach my own judgement of whether I deem it to be safe or not.
Presumably the WHO bases a year, 2 years etc on when they feel the individuals immune system is strong enough, but that will not obviously be a one age suits all.

My expertise currently lie more in the subject of bacteria than in infant feeding choices, but hopefully that will be to come

Hmm. In France they tell you to not sterilize at all. It seems it's the same in the States? Interesting how First World countries can have different policies re infant safety.

AFAIK the cases you're talking about were almost all to do with incorrect storing of the formula- so first, you need to have that bacterium present in the formula powder (very rare) and then if you leave lukewarm milk on a shelf for hours,so it can multiply and then feed to to a newborn, well then, yes, it can be serious.

If you scrub the bottle well with hot water and detergent or put it on high temp cycle in a dishwasher, your chances of some deadly bacteria still being there and then multiplying wildly are virtually non-existant.

To me, it's the same pregnancy and baby panic that causes women to freak out if they taste a morsel of pate (vit.A causing damage to the foetus) or to think that a glass of wine in pg will cause FAS etc etc.

I thought the 1 year milestone was because most babies are weaned on to cows' milk at that point (ie risk related to powdered milk is no longer present)

I sterilised until 1 year first time, 6m second time.

This was mainly because my DD was in a regional NICU at birth attached to one of our best children's hospitals in the UK after having a operation on her stomach. When it came to giving her EBM through a bottle, I asked where I could sterilise her bottles and dummy. The answer was: nowhere. They didn't sterilise at all. Hot water, soap and scrubbing was all they did.

I was amazed, and couldn't quiet get my head around very prem babies, babies who had just and surgery etc not having their things sterilised.

I fail to see the huge effort involved in sterilising but perhaps someone could enlighten me?

I'm with the perfect father on this. Surely important to scrub out milk residue with hot soapy water, rinse well and air dry than to pop in steam steriliser open it up and them bam! Not sterile any more. Not for less than say 7 months, but post lumpy weaning sure. As for the bowls and spoons? Errrrr.