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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think, "enough with the smoker-bashing"

83 replies

47to31in7days · 21/06/2012 14:09

I opened up MN today to find a picture of an innocent little girl next to Cancer Research UK's spiel on plain packaging and child smoking. It says "Help us protect children from starting by supporting us..."

I am not and have never been a smoker, nor are most of the people close to me. The declining rates of smoking in the past few decades have certainly been good for individual and public health. So I'm not coming from the perspective of a disgruntled victim of the new persecution, or a Big Tobacco shill trying to contest whether it's that bad for you after all.

I signed up to the rival "Hands off our Packs" anti-plain packaging campaign when two people approache me in the street with their petition. I find the continuous anti-choice assaults on tobacco to be an injustice to the companies and people who choose to use it.

Nearly all the 11-15 year olds I knew who smoked when I was in that age group started by sneaking a cigarette or two off friends, their mum or someone else or by buying "loosies" which some inner city off licenses continue to sell to this day [though they have been banned for 20 years]. People only got near a pack when they'd moved from experimental to regular nicotine fixes. There was always a circle around the back of school where 4 or 5 of the older kids- probably 15, can't have been 16 as we had a different uniform for leavers' year in my school- pulled out cigs from packs that never got seen and distributed them to a whole posse of younger ones, who shared one between three or four of them. I was never tempted to join in and seeing a shiny gold pack- without gruesome warning pictures- was not going to make me.

They may well have figures suggesting that plain packaging will lower the number of smokers, which I am not questioning the validity of. It does not justify bringing in yet more legislative compulsion though. This government had said "no more nanny state." It promised to restore liberties. It attacked Labour's authoritarian record. The most insidious thing at all is that it is being pushed on a "safeguarding" platform. The signs outside primary school gates telling you to "protect" your children from secondhand smoke, the pack warnings using the same "protect" language and an image of smoke blowing toward a baby's face, it's all emotional blackmail against parents, especially offensive to those who are careful not to light up around their kids.

Child protection is too often used as a trump card to defeat principled objection to government policies that deny or circumscribe liberty of adults or youth. Besides which smokers have suffered enough already. Tax rises, publicans being ordered to stop them by central government, guilt trip tactics, advertising bans, now the display ban (after the legal challenge was tossed out)- I say LEAVE THOSE SMOKERS ALONE! AIBU to think the government and the medical establishment ought to back off quickly?

OP posts:
izzyizin · 21/06/2012 16:12

It'll come, Damsel, but you can bet that the labels on bottles of Chateaneuf du Pape, Bolly, and brown ale as served in the Commons & the Lords will remain pleasingly devoid of such pix.

PomBearWithAnOFRS · 21/06/2012 16:17

Oh the drinkers will be next Damsel - pregnant women who have any alcohol at all are already being stigmatised, especially in the US. Then there's the complete over zealous wankery of the supermarkets about ID getting worse by the day. It won't be long. Give it five years and the drinkers will be in the same position as the smokers, and then they'll start on the fat people.

blondie80 · 21/06/2012 16:33

fatties on take away boxes, victims of drunk drivers on beer/wine bottles, tortured animals on cosmetics products, dishonest thieving politicans on tax returns.......etc.

headfairy · 21/06/2012 16:35

:o at chubfuddler's first post... Your OP read like a press release 47to31

47to31in7days · 21/06/2012 17:45

headfairy why? I am not a media professional... let alone FOREST.

OP posts:
LucieMay · 21/06/2012 17:53

The anti smoking culture is what it is now and will never change. I just let the government do what they will and let the preachers get on their high horse. I just shrug my shoulders and carry on!

CogitoErgoSometimes · 21/06/2012 18:03

YABU. Smoking habits are not altered by any measures that have happened recently. Smokers are a dogged bunch. Potential new users can still be dissuaded.

DamselInTornDress · 21/06/2012 18:15

The prohibition created the mafia in it's days. More recently, look at Mexico and the drug lords war and the futility of the law, all through the illegality of drugs. I'm wondering what will happen if cigarettes were made totally illegal? They wont ban alcohol again because they've learned their lesson, which is why they are now into price fixing. But if price fixing is legal in one area it is easy to move it on to others, which we need to be prepared for.

headfairy · 21/06/2012 18:21

47to31 then you should consider a job in PR, because your op reads exactly like a million other press releases that end up in the bin

DublinMammy · 21/06/2012 18:26

Blondie80's made me laugh!

Let them smoke away, the tax raised pays for their expensive cancer treatment then they have the grace to fuck off and die young, thereby not contributing to the burden on pensions. Thank you smokers.

hugglymugly · 21/06/2012 19:30

Well, even if the original post is a little bit suspect, I'll still post my response:

I'm a smoker, and have been for most of my adult life. I'm now in my sixties, and know full well how difficult it is to beat this addiction, and am now experiencing some of the health consequences.

I'm all in favour of whatever tactics can be used to prevent young people going down this road, especially the (few) youngsters from the nearby secondary school who think smoking makes them look "cool".

As for secondary smoke - I don't give a rat's ass about any studies either for or against. The truth is that people who smoke smell and their breath smells, and who wants smelly people around them, especially breathing over babies and young children.

DamselInTornDress · 21/06/2012 19:54

Have you smelt the breath and skin of meat eaters?

Bleugh!

sashh · 22/06/2012 03:15

I'm pro civil liberties in general and believe smoking should be classed as one.

Sorry but that just demeans civil liberties. Do you really think that smoking is akin to banning slavery or not allowing people to vote?

And as someone who was brought up stinking of tobacco, forced to breath second hand smoke I find it insulting that as a child I had no right to clean air.

balotelli · 22/06/2012 06:22

Having seen what tobacco has done to my DF's health and the cost to the NHS YABU. Its a disgusting drug that casuses untold misery to 1000's of people. Its not just the smokers that suffer.

IMHO any parent that smokes in a house where there are children should be prosecuted for abuse.

If you forces a child to drink a carcenogenic substance then you would be arrested but make them inhale it and thats fine?

Thumbwitch · 22/06/2012 06:27

Pro civil liberties so long as it doesn't pertain to children, hey, OP. You know, children having the right to do things that affect their health without telling their parents.

YABU anyway.

tinkerbel72 · 22/06/2012 07:00

Op you are very transparent; your op reads exactly like a FOREST spokesperson!

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys if people choose to inhale a cocktail of toxins while making their hair and clothes stink and their face age prematurely. But it equally doesnt bother me if cigarettes are sold in plain packaging and not openly displayed. Honestly, anyone who is dumb enough to willingly pay more tax into the treasury than they have to, by means of damaging their health to boot, will probably carry on doing so however fags are marketed

ElephantsCanRemember · 22/06/2012 07:04

Thumbwitch I'm so glad you said that.
Op I find it amusing that you say you are pro civil liberties given your homphobic views (I know it isn't the done thing to bring something from one thread to another but this has really stuck in my throat).

PeggyCarter · 22/06/2012 07:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

47to31in7days · 22/06/2012 07:26

Elephants and Thumbwitch- bringing up previous threads, OK... I never advocated children being allowed to buy tobacco in any packs. I just said I was against what I consider to be an attack on adult smokers and companies that are forced to make huge contributions to the Treasury dressed up as safeguarding children. It's not a huge measure, but it's unfair for the government to dictate what your product has to look like. We're not a socialist controlled state, most of the opponents of this are pro-enterprise/ capitalist think tanks from what I have read.

Also I'm not homophobic. I made some nasty comments on an AIBU thread about cohabitation in a parent's house... which I have apologised to 2 people for by PM since, and were rightly deleted. Those posts do not reflect the way I treat gays IRL.

OP posts:
ElephantsCanRemember · 22/06/2012 07:46

I am NOT homophobic. I have said that to enough people IRL who use that as a casual attack-word, it does not apply to me. In response though I would not allow a gay child of mine to have a partner with them of the same sex ever: I would expect celibacy. It's unfortunate some people have homosexual tendencies but that's imperfect man for you
Your words OP,not mine, plus at least 4 other deleted posts by you.

But you keep on talking about civil liberties Wink

eurochick · 22/06/2012 08:03

I grew up in a smoking household. I hated it. The nets were yellow. The paintwork was yellow. If asked to run in school, I would wheeze. I don't have asthma and can now run pretty well. I never wheeze. It was awful that I had to grow up in that environment. Now my father has a form of cancer. My mother (who didn't smoke after her early 20s but was exposed to a lot of passive smoking like me) has had cancer twice. I wholly support more regulation.

47to31in7days · 22/06/2012 08:17

Civil liberties and personal morality aren't the same thing Shock
If anyone was trying to make homosexual practice illegal or otherwise restrict them by State power I wouldn't approve. I personally think it's wrong due to my religion but I believe everyone else has the right to make their own minds up on it and live by their principles (unless they are abusing someone.)

Not comparable to Parliament making a law that will force all tobacco retailers in this country to comply or be punished. "Civil liberties" is a question of liberty from excessive government law and regulation.

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 22/06/2012 08:33

Why are you confusing civil liberties, as in for individual members of society, with having control on the actions of large corporations?

When people became concerned with globalisation, measures were taken that not only applited to monetory matters but conditions of trading/advertising etc.

Thus we had the likes of P&G and alcohol/tobacco companies being challenged over the way that their products were being marketed to the public.

PurityBrown · 22/06/2012 08:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thumbwitch · 22/06/2012 08:45

oh no Purity - your entire post will be discounted now because the OP is not a smoker.

Interestingly, it would appear that smoking carcinogenic substances would have to be against the OP's religion for her to decide it's a Bad Thing.

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