to think not folding a buggy to make way for a wheelchair user on a bus is despicable?

[Zara1984]

Just watching Channel 4 news here and a focus piece on public transport accessibility for disabled people.

Apparently one of the biggest users for wheelchair users is parents with buggies not folding them to make way for wheelchair users. This startled me - surely there are not really parents out there who refuse to fold down their buggies to make way for a person in a wheelchair??? Seriously? What kind of twat does that?

AIBU to think that any parent who does this is not a nice human being?

Does this actually happen???

Hello. Just to say that this thread has been reported to us a fair few times because some other threads on the same issue were deleted earlier today, and people were (understandably) suspicious that, by starting yet another thread on the same subject, the OP here was being deliberately inflammatory.

We've taken a look and can see that the OP has been an MNer for a long while now and we're pretty darn sure she started this thread in response to tonight's Channel 4 News story, without knowledge of the other threads.

We'd also like to take the opportunity to state clearly that we at MNHQ do not tolerate disablist remarks - and, as per our Talk Guidelines, we will delete disablist remarks that are reported to us.

Feel your "aaaaaarghs" Maryz (and raise you about 7 million of 'em) but no one's saying that on this thread, are they?

everlong, I think you will find that a fair few of us either have disabled children/relatives or are disabled

I had two small children in the days before pram spaces on buses, I now have an intermittently disabled dd- I know which is the hardest

as it so happens, MN has a very high proportion of carers of disabled children - and all those carers will naturally also have experience of travelling with babies and toddlers

@Maryz

There's a couple saying it's a grey area if you have more than one child, or lots of shopping.

It's the slippery slope. There'll be another dozen by the morning.

And we're here at bottom of t'slope, ready with delete button. Or another post clarifying our position.

Oh for very fuck's sake.
Fucking, fucking double fucking shitting fucking arseing standards.

I agree it is selfish if you can move your pram, and i always have......but i also found it not fair when i had a disabled baby with an oxygen tank in the pram basket and a 19month old who i had to get to hospital on a bus, and i was the one who was told i couldn't board the bus to make way for a wheelchair user. I couldn't very well carry a baby, oxygen cylinder and a toddler and fold my pram, but not a soul offered to help, and my baby's disability was overlooked.....might not look like a wheelchair cos it's a pram but for all intents and purposes it was. Anyhoo i have rearranged any further appointments until i have transport from that day on! Yep, should be more buses and more spaces for all!

Not another pushchairs v wheelchairs thread.

But some mothers are selfish. Boarded the No 31 from Kilburn to Maida Vale tonight. A mother was stood in the middle of the space with a fucking tractor sorry pram. I had loads of shopping bags and saw empty seats at the back. At the moment I have psoriasis on the soles of my feet which make walking difficult. I said 'Excuse me' so I could reach a seat. Cue much huffing and puffing and settling PFB in ten layers of blankets. The selfish witch. IMO some mothers think they have an automatic right to hog the space on buses which gives priority to wheelchair users.

And what really really pisses me off are those mothers that purchase huge fucking pram/tractor combos and take the fuckers on public transport. Its like 'Look at me, aren't we wonderful to afford this contraption?'

Err no love. Fucking walk. God those tractor women piss me off. They can be seen pushing their tractors to the local farmers market every Sunday. 'Quick, clear the pavement mother coming through, I AM SO IMPORTANT'

Well, I could never close my buggy, so I only ever used the bus once , at the insistence of a SIL. Quite how the fuck she expected me to use both hands and one foot to collapse it while holding two 6 month old babies was a mystery to me. If I had found it possible, and used buses and a wheelchair user needed the space I would have accommodated them. Instead I went only were I could walk until we moved abroad.

When I worked in London - pre DCs- I used to give up my seat if someone less able bodied than me needed it. I would apply the same principle to a buggy.

Oh for fucks sake. All of you saying the pushchair user should get off if they can't fold their buggy, why on earth should someone have to pay twice for one journey, just because bus companies cannot provide adequate space. I folded my buggy yesterday to make room for another buggy user, the bus driver pulled away whilst I was folding it, my 18 month old fell over and bumped his head and not one fucker offered to help. The issue is most certainly with the bus companies not buggy using mums.

everlong, the woman in question was blocking empty seats. How is that a cue for getting offended if someone wants to sit on them?

MNHQ whywhywhywhy has this thread not been deleted.

It's not difficult is it? The disabled space is for someone with a disability, not a child in a pushchair. No matter what your situation - if you are using the space and a person with a disability needs to use the bus either get off or make space.

I remember what parents did with two kids, a pushchair and bags of shopping on the bus, before equality was given to those who were unable to access a bus.

how fortunate parents are now a days to be able to use the disabled space until it is required by the people the space was designed for.

people and bus drivers were the same back then, thats why easy to fold buggys were folded before entering the bus.

A lot of the fault surely lies with the bus companies, the bus drivers are not willing to wait while a mum folds the pushchair, they will just drive off before all the children are sat down and held securely and it's this that makes it a nightmare for mums.

It's pretty intimidating having a driver huff and puff at you and roll his eyes etc while you get more and more flustered trying to juggle shopping, several small children, change bag, drinks and the pram. I think most mums would fold if given the chance to, and helped to rather than being stared at by everyone on the bus.

There is also no way of refunding ticket money if you decide it's easier to just get off and wait for the next bus, some sort of stamp perhaps so ticket was valid on the next bus?

I have used the bus in the days before the pram could be pushed straight on with various nieces and nephews, back in those days as you knew pram needed to be folded you were waiting at the bus stop with pram folded ready, everything in one backpack/bag, children knew to get on quickly if capable and sit down and hold on, there was a rack at the front to stick the pram in - I notice my local buses don't have a rack now, and then I would always walk home as it just wasn't possible with a load of shopping as well as several children.

I thank goodness I am capable of walking most of the time, had to use the bus recently because of a broken toe but it must be awful to have no choice all the time - it wasn't a good experience.

Oh and my local buses have a sign up saying wheelchairs DO NOT have priority over pushchairs, was surprised at this.

For crying out loud, after 4 or 5 threads there cannot still be people who think they have the right to occupy a wheelchair space just because they have 2 children and 3 bags of shopping.

When dd was a baby, there was no space for pushchairs, you folded of or you walked. If you had shopping you asked someone to help you put the shopping away, or put the pushchair down whilst you took the child out.

We all managed just fine didn't we??

I don't get it, if you have to travel by bus, be prepared to fold the pushchair.

I've been aware of the other threads recently on this topic, but haven't read them all through (not enough hours in the day)

The fact that this can come up again and again, just shows that the message is somehow not getting through.

1. The bus companies are not providing the disabled space through the kindness of their hearts, or because they want to make life easier for their passengers. They are doing so because it is a legal requirement.

1. Although it would be nice if there was space for buggies on buses, most bus companies do not provide dedicated space for them as well as wheelchairs, because it is not a legal requirement, and they don't actually care about the wants of their passengers.

1. The wheelchair space on a bus is reserved for wheelchairs. In the same way that if you got on a train and sat in a reserved seat, you would have to vacate it if the person who reserved it came along, so you must vacate the wheelchair space if the person it is reserved for comes along. It doesn't matter if you were there first.

I think it is up to the bus companies to make this much more explicit.

It should also be up to the bus companies to provide more than the legal minimum, and actually consider the needs of ALL their passengers when comissioning the design of the interior of buses. I've been on plenty of buses with spaces for both wheelchair users and buggies, so it can be done.

It's really more up to people to not be so selfish and to realise a person using a wheelchair cannot fold up their wheelchair and sit somewhere else, however a parent with a pushchair can, but generally doesn't want to because it's too much hard work.

It's basic common sense, surely we don't need a bus driver to explain that.

FFS another thread about this?!?! Enough already-drop it!!!