To not "get" all the fuss about tax avoidance?

[Peppin]

There is a difference between tax avoidance an tax evasion. Tax evasion is unlawful, tax avoidance is working within the law to minimise tax liability.

I should caveat this post with the fact that I am employed and all my income is taxed through PAYE. If I had more sources of income and more of it, I would not object to paying tax on all of it (by way of example, I never seek to reduce payments by paying cash to plumbers etc.), but equally, I would not want to pay more tax than I had to in order to remain on the right side of the law.

It seems to me that for wealthy individuals, paying an accountant to advise on minimising your tax liability is perfectly reasonable. If the government doesn't like the net effect of this, then it is the job of parliament to pass legislation that closes the loopholes that permit the "avoidance". So why is David Cameron bleating on about tax avoidance as though it were some sort of criminal offence?

I don't mind how much anyone earns

Good luck to them

TBF Catgirl - if your father has used a similar scheme for years and you think it's OK, you're fairly likely to think some people are overreacting to JC's tax dodges .

It's wealth 'management' and for Cameron to go on about it is a bit rich given many of his supporters will actively seek to maximise their assets. U2 moved their finances a while back to be tax efficientand the Rolling Stones paid 6% on £70 million earned in 2007. It is available to everyone but as has been said you need to be succesful to make it pay. Places like Greece have billionaires who are exempt from tax!

as long as there are tax laws people and companies will pay people either on or off shore to find ways round them. That's what tax/corporate lawyers and accountants do. It depends whether it's worth the cost in the context of your wealth.

What will never happen is some sort of outlawing of tax loopholes. Close all the ones in the City and near Offshore and the wealthy will go to the next nearest jurisdiction and use theirs.

I pay 50% tax myself and I dont avoid any

I don't mind how much anyone earns. I'm with you on this one, though - it's just the amount of tax they pay on said income we differ on!

or moan about it

Catgirl, if I recall correctly, you're self employed? If so, why haven't you set something up to pay less tax? (If you're PAYE, sorry!)

Cameron should spend his energy closing some of these loopholes instead of wasting his breath whinging about the likes of Jimmy Carr who is acting within the law.

I am PAYE MsV - so I have to pay

I don't honestly know if I would avoid if I could. Its easy to say you wouldn't when its not an option IYSWIM

If catgirl is self employed, then they are NOT paying 50% tax.
They are paying 20 and 40 and 50% tax and 9% and 2% class 4 NI
and all of that is on their NET profit, not their gross earnings - not an option available to employees.
If she is an employee she is paying between 20% and 51.8% tax on their earnings.
Taxes are not simple.
Please do not pretend they are.

babybarrister
the Oligarchs are here because the UK is one of the few countries in the peaceful world that does not have restrictions on foreign ownership of property - simple as.

Why do African despots, Pakistani Generals, Russian oligarchs like W. Europe? Access to good financial services,regular flights to safe havens, shopping for their wives/children, good schools etc and safety from their associates although there was a wealthy Russian recently gunned down in London wasn't there?

a few celebrities said they would leave the UK years ago if Labour got in,there still here due to there horror that they thought labour would tax them high,they didnt

baby,good points,funny how them celebrities moaned about tax but ended up staying mainly i should imagine due to the points you raised,good post

and i bet they still never payed the right moral amount

Taxes are not simple.
Please do not pretend they are.

Of course taxes aren't simple - please do not patronise me. I was asking a question which Catgirl didn't appear to mind answering (thanks, Catgirl).

Whether taxes are simple are not is hardly the issue we're discussing. Whether aggressive (but legal) tax avoidance is acceptable is.

Didn't mind at all

I suppose I think it is immoral, but when its individuals it is far less immoral than when its big companies and that's why I don't feel overly outraged by jimmy

Does that make sense?

Makes sense to me - it's all relative. When a corporation legally avoids tax, they're depriving the country of millions of pounds, whereas with an individual, it's often "only" tens of thousands.

I'm not that fussed about JC either - he's just been set up as the poster boy of the latest big story. Still stand by my earlier comment though, and I'll say it again:

Jimmy Carr, if you're reading - you're a fecking hypocrite.

It's sensible planning to ensure your tax liability is minimal and especially with inheritance planning. It's one of the few ways you can avoid double or even triple taxation in the UK. The VAT on his Aston Martin will have paid for a large amount of benefits. At least he is spending his money in the UK and not living in Monaco.

Then the doctors will still be picking up there salaries for tomorrow whilst striking and Vodafone and Tesco seem to still have a huge amount of customers. Actually if the outrage about Tesco was real I'm surprised why they still stock the Daily Fail as you'd have thought their readers were all boycotting there.

I don't think Jimmy Carr is a hypocrite. When did he put himself forward as someone who works towards a better society? I think DC is a weasely little hypocrite for saying Jimmy Carr is 'morally wrong' when David Cameron, his wife, his family, his friends and the majority of his party donors and colleagues (on both benches) have taken measures to avoid tax.

He's really funny, not a hypocrite.

This is why I think he's a hypocrite. You may disagree, fair enough.

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=jimmy%20carr%20barclays%20sketch&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CGUQtwIwBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHXibReHW3UA&ei=Vk7iT8nuIqjC0QWF3KnFAw&usg=AFQjCNFUlm8aUOWo84gmbzb-116D55dMIQ

Sorry the link name is so long - don't know how to condense it into "Jimmy Carr sketch"! Hope it works, never linked before.