to absolutely not know what i believe in

[bubbub]

i was christened and later on took bible studies and was confirmed, i was really too young to make my own mind up, and remember very little of it. my parents are not religious, but wanted me to be confirmed to "keep up with the joneses" fast forward to now, and i long for a rock solid belief in god, but i cant quite seem to allow myself to.
i cant bring myself to buy into the bible, its so contradictory, and a lot of the views i cannot agree with.
i mean, can science and a belief in god be compatible?
god created the world in 7 days, created man ect... but we know for a fact the dinosaurs roamed the earth way before man came along. so if that bit is wrong, is the rest of it right?
the thing is, although i have always wanted to believe i have never been able to, and have i suppose considered myself to be an atheist, who envies those with beliefs.
last week a friend of mine was given traumatic news, and was told to expect a real worst case outcome, they needed to wait for results, and during that wait, i prayed, i really prayed (thank god, the outcome was better than they had thought, though not, im sure, down to my or anyone elses prayer)
it suprised me that i prayed, i didnt think about it, i just did it, so that must mean deep down i do have a belief in god, but not the bible/religion/jesus stories. can you have one without the other?

if you believe, how do you balance out science with religion? what makes you able to believe?

Agree with the poster who said everyone has to figure out these things for themselves. It's really important to do that. If you want to believe, and pray in times of difficulty, I would say read the gospels, and keep praying. God loves every one of us. If you seek him, you will find him.

You have had some good replies already re literal interpretation of the bible - few christians take everything literally - and the bible and science.

Bubbub, I don't believe in a god. I find both religion and science fascinating and I am always interested to find out more about both but I have no desire to pop into a laboratory and learn how to do experiments with test tubes as much as I have no desire to pop into a church and light a candle.

(sorry about the crass examples there!)

I am really interested to why you 'long for a rock solid belief in God'? Where does this longing come from? ( genuine interest)

WhiteWidow I think what you've said only applies to fundamentalists where the Bible is taken literally word for word. Many Christians would disagree with their stance and see no problem with accepting both science and God.

And there is of course "thinking belief" and "unthinking unbelief" to add to your list.

The Christian Bible is simply one view of the Abrahamic god. There are lots of others - Judaism, Islam, Baha'i, Mormonism etc. And within each of those broad churches there are any number of different interpretations with radically different messages. And outside of the Abrahamic religions there are any number of completely different faiths - Hinduism, Sikhism, Shinto, Paganism, Buddhism, Jainism and so on.

My point is this - if having a faith is important to you, but the belief structures of the form of Christianity you were taught don't sit well with you, then look into finding a different religion that suits you better. Some - eg Buddhism, Shinto, the Tao - are more philosophical than strictly religious and you may find a better fit there.

Or you could go the deist route and say that while you believe in god(s), your belief in them extends only so far as he/she/it/they created the universe and then metaphorically wandered off to do more interesting stuff. The god(s) of the deist view have no day-to-day involvement in our world or our lives at all.

Or you can just live your life in a way that makes sense to you and build a personal relationship with god as you see fit. If the Abrahamic god really does exist and really is as forgiving as he is claimed to be then I can only think that he wants you to be happy and to live a good life that works for you. After all, isn't that what you would want for your children?

wow, thanks for the responses, i found the links interesting, but didnt find they answered anything for me personally, especially about the "why does god allow suffering" i found the answer a bit alot-- wishywashy.
hyperballad, you said it really well, i am fasinated in both, but wouldnt have the inclination to do either. pop into a lab or a church.

i "long" for the ability to believe because i always have, i just think how much less fear you would experince as an adult if you firmly believed that everything turned out alright in the end? would i be stronger in the face of adversity if i had faith? would i face struggles easier?

You have to figure out for yourself whether you believe that God has created us, or that we have created God. Once you are certain of your answer, everything else falls into place.

My sister and other family members have a strong Christian faith that undoubtedly helps them through life and informs the way they live. When I was younger I wanted to be like them; to let Jesus come into my heart. He never did.
These days, I'd call myself an agnostic. Except, ironically, on the odd occasion where I have to attend a church service, when I'm afraid none of the prayers and teachings make any rational sense, and I feel closer to the atheist end of the spectrum than at any other time.

So true Brecon. Reading the bible has the same effect for me now.

I think if you want faith, and you pray, then you have faith. It might not look like the image of 'faith' you have in your head (especially if you think things like creationism are central to Christianity or theism - they really aren't). Its up to you what, if anything, you do with that faith, but it does exist. When I was in your position I was far too curious to let it rest and eventually ended up becoming a Christian. Maybe start by praying to God, without making any decisions about what kind of God that is, and see where it takes you?

Just wanted to add that I have faith because I'm a pragmatist. I've tried it and it works (better than atheism, which I tried before). Seems perfectly rational to me.

"Science and God are not compatible in the slightest."

I think that the many, many scientists who are also Christians would disagree with this point.

If you were God, how would you go about making human beings in a world with no suffering? How would you relate this to people having free will, choosing whether to be kind, and there being consequences to their actions?

I thought we got to spend eternity in god's presence as a consequence of taking Jesus into our hearts and god bestowing his grace upon us. I didn't think our actions came into it in the slightest. After all, not even the basest of sinners capable will be denied god's forgiveness provided he truly repents.

So other than choosing to put our trust in Jesus, where are the consequences of any of our actions?

Hi Step. The 3 main problems I have with the free will angle are 1, innocent people suffer because of other people's actions 2, it's not a level playing field as in some people are more likely to commit crime due to other issues out of their control and 3, how about disease and so on?

While we're on the subject how come god held Adam and Eve accountable for an action they took BEFORE they knew right from wrong. Seems highly unfair.

Snorbs, I wasn't referring to salvation. By "consequences" I mean that as humans we have to decide how to treat others and how this will affect them.

There's often a question asked about why did God invent a world that contains suffering. And headinhands has asked good questions.

So I'm asking what other options there would be - would it have been possible/desirable for God to create humans without any capacity to choose anything other than the "good" option? So we'd just basically be puppets?

I do empathise with you. I'm jewish although my parents were never religious, staunch atheists in fact, but I learnt a bit about judaism from my gran and it linked to a belief I already had within me. I don't exactly follow the organised religion itself but I identify as jewish culturally and as I have a faith in god.

I find it really hard to articulate what I believe, I just know I feel there is a god. I agree with science and don't think the world was created by god etc but in the same irrational way I love my children, I believe in god.

I know that I feel that human choice overrides the will of god, if a human does something bad e.g makes the decision to murder I feel that god is powerless to that but I suppose I see god as a bit like fate or destiny, that maybe when someones life hangs in the balance, god has an influence. I don't necessarily believe in the after life, but I also feel I can be heard by those who have died (think i believe in the soul). In regards to why things happen good, bad or terrible I tend to feel its a balance, for every good thing there is a bad reaction and so on.

I personally think just go with what feel comfortable, if one aspect doesn't feel right to you don't believe it, if one bit does then have that faith. I always think religion is like a healthy diet, we all interpret it in different ways and do different things to achieve that equilibrium, just because you don''t follow government guidelines it doesn't mean you're unhealthy.

How about give them the choice? Lay it out to the human before birth somehow? "Hello Headinhands, You can either a, love me and know nothing else and never experience pain or b, have free will and run the risk of suffering for eternity and that's after a life of guaranteed struggles and at times overwhelming emotional and/or physical pain/grief. Oh, and it's a lottery, if you're born in a county that has me as their main god then you have about a 10% chance of avoiding eternal pain/gaining eternal bliss, but If you happen to be born elsewhere it's almost guaranteed you won't choose me but that's your options. Take your pick." Hmmm

I would try discussing this in philosophy and religion.

I think you've already found the answer. A religion based upon Saved by the Bell.

Screech be with you.

I don't remember being given the choice? And what about babies that are given the choice say yes and die?