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AIBU?

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To wonder why OUR justice system can't hand out sentences like this:

39 replies

JosephineCD · 14/06/2012 22:33

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2159426/Disgraced-financier-Allen-Stanford-sentenced-110-years-prison-defrauding-investors-7billion--claims-hes-scapegoat.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Disgraced Cricket impressario Allen Stanford has been given a sentence of 110 years for swindling investors. Now why can't our own pathetic justice system learn from this and start handing out lengthy sentences instead of pathetically short ones such as less than 10 years for killing someone?

OP posts:
JosephineCD · 14/06/2012 23:48

How would they have less offenders if they switched to a northern European style system?

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 14/06/2012 23:55

read further up the thread

24HourPARDyPerson · 14/06/2012 23:55

the Wire lol. It's a very good programme but you can't base a justice system on entertainment shows.

You want to give that ole hobby horse a break now and again, Josephine

RubyFakeNails · 15/06/2012 01:38

Surely the purpose of prison is to rehabilitate and some circumstances protect society from those violent individuals who pose a serious threat.

Locking him up for 110 years does neither of these. Also it makes the sentence seem farcical, what a ridiculous amount.

I read somewhere about a guy in the US who had been given 7 life sentences all in one go, each one stating he must never be released. What on earth is the point, it makes it seem as if the judge doesn't know what he's saying.

The scandinavian system is much more successful but I also think that it is supported by them being generally more egalitarian societies. I don't know if anyone saw a feature in the Guardian Weekend about a norwegian prison. They have zero prison violence, despite housing violent offenders. They also have a much lower re-offending rate.

I think just the facts that in the US they have to repeatedly conduct executions show that the death penalty and the style of punishment in the states fails. As a nation the US incarcerates a higher percentage of its population than anywhere else on the planet yet they don't have the lowest crime rates on the planet. Also i believe in 2010/11 it was found that crime rates fell as less people were jailed.

JosephineCD · 15/06/2012 01:45

Also i believe in 2010/11 it was found that crime rates fell as less people were jailed.
In what country? Sounds like utter rubbish to me. Lets not jail anyone then, and see what happens to crime rates then.

How do you punish people without the threat of jail?

OP posts:
fridakahlo · 15/06/2012 02:24

Well, in some countries they still believe that chopping bits off people is a good deterrent. And we used to brand people and hang them and burn them to death. But nowadays we have come to a point where we recoignise that state inflicted torture is not on and I am sure at some point in the future we will find a system that does not require the use of prison as it is now in order to rehabilatate people so they don't become repeat offenders.

fridakahlo · 15/06/2012 02:26

Last sentence did not quite make sense. At the moment we use prison as a punishment, in the future I am sure a system that is much more about rehabilation will become the norm. Or at least I hope so.

ComposHat · 15/06/2012 03:00

I think the reason that the courts don't give out sentences like that, is the fact that the judicary isn't run by gun-toting, hang em shoot em flog em bigots, closet racists, religious nutcases and the like.

This is Texas we are talking about.

if the op wants to live somewhere like Texas, over 450 executions since the mid 70s and one of the worst health care systems in the developed world, then feel free to fuck the fuck off.

Remember This is the state that elected George Bush (the idiot one) as governor.

RubyFakeNails · 15/06/2012 03:06

It may sound like utter rubbish to you, but it is factual results from the US.

Are you seriously asking that question Josephine how do you punish people without the threat of jail?

The majority of people need rehabilitation, surely we want to utilise and involve society as a whole. People don't generally steal a car because they just cant help themselves and must be kept under lock and key in order to prevent them from doing so. Usually, poverty, unemployment (and therefore poverty), drugs, lack of education lead them to make such choices.

As a society we have to invest in people, particularly when they tend to be individuals the state has failed (considering how many of the UK prison population comes form a care background). In the Uk roughly 2 out of 3 prisoners re-offend.

Also around 70% or male and female prisoners have 2 or more mental disorders, over half have drug problem prior to entering prison and around half have alcohol problems, similarly around half were expelled from school. Most convicts come from systemically dysfunctional backgrounds, to just house them and wait for them to do it again fails them and us as a society.

ComposHat · 15/06/2012 03:10

What do you think I mean by "actual crime"?

The actual amount of crime that happens. As opposed to recorded crime, or crime statistics, which are juked to make the government/police look better. Didn't you watch the Wire?

Where to start with this level of stupidity.

You do realise that it wasn't a documentry you were watching and that it was FICTIONAL and all the stories were made up? They weren't really Cops, but actors.

Rather than using TV Dramas as a source to back up your argument, why not look at some actual statistics. How about the British Crime Survey, which asks members of the public if they have been the victim of crime or not (as opposed to recorded crime) Do you know what, it shows -suprise, suprise - that crime is falling.

Okay it is not a perfect survey and under represents certain types of crime, but it is sure as shit a more reliable measure than a HBO Drama about Baltimore.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/10645702

RubyFakeNails · 15/06/2012 03:21

Josephine I think you might find this interesting.

sashh · 15/06/2012 03:42

I'm glad I'm not the taxpayer who has to fund him for the rest of his life, as he gets older his medical bills will increase.

The US has prisons designed and built for old and infirm inmates. People who cannot take themselves to the bathroom any more, people who don't know who they are because of dementia. Basically very expensive care homes, just with no comforts, lots of bars and handcuffs.

SquidgyBiscuits · 15/06/2012 04:29

Erm we do pass sentences of the same length. We just tend to sentence concurrently rather than consecutively.

OP you are aware that it isn't 1 sentence of 110 years aren't you? I assume so as sentences must be passed in the same way in The Wire (don't watch it myself)

Horopu · 15/06/2012 04:45

I don't think a judge passing 7 life sentences makes him/her look stupid, assuming it was for 7 different offences. The person could later appeal and have some of those verdicts overturned but they would still be in for life for any they were guilty of.

Is the Wire good then Josephine ? I was thinking of renting the 1st series, wasn't sure if it was too realistic for me.

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