to think C4+1 was out of order RE abortion sabboter

[thekidsrule]

hi,at 9o'clock tonight i switched on the tv C4+1 and 5 mins before the programme i intended to watch was one of those 5 minute people speaking segments

tonights was a young guy talking about how he stands outside abortion clinics praying and trying to stop them entering the clinic, women that are about to IMHO make the hardest decision of their life

he spent 5 minutes saying his views and what is involved standing outside harrassing these women,also saying how he has had women not enter the clinic through his actions (probably to traumitised by him id imagine)

anyway should channel 4 air this,fair enough if its a tv programme you are probably aware what the content is and choose whether to watch or not,but this just came on,no prior warning i dont think

actually it made me pretty cross

i think they did arrest/caution a man recently who was being very abusive, but i think the religious group who were protesting claimed he was nowt to do with them...

I hope the police arrest him every time he harasses woman outside clinics as surely he cannot claim he was not aware that reasonable people would take offense.

I hope the police arrest him every time he harasses woman outside clinics as surely he cannot claim he was not aware that reasonable people would take offense.

If this was the case half the nation would be arrested

He sounds horrible I don't share his views in the slightest. I don't necessarily disagree with him being allowed to air his views on C4 - "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" and all that.

BUT I think anyone actually harrassing women outside abortion clinics should be arrested and taken away- it is vile behaviour. Hate them. These women have a right to access a legal abortion clinic without harrassment.

i was and angry at the first few of these i saw until i realised it's a soap box for anyone no matter what their beliefs.

i may not agree with what they say but i like that they have a right to say it.

But then 'define' harrassment.

Is simply being there harrassment?

It's not as bad as people in America who stand outside abortion clinics with their young children telling the people going in not to kill their children.

He is doing the same as wearing a swastika then walking into a synagogue, he could protest anywhere but he is doing it in a place to deliberately cause offense.

Josephine or those who bomb the clinics in the US or shoot the doctors too.

Isn't harassment defined by the victim? People have the right to access a legal medical procedure without people standing outside all day 'praying' for them. And we all know they aren't just praying - they are shouting/cajoling/insulting. That is, imo, harassment.

It's ironic that he's a very good advertisement for abortion.

They stand outside the Marie Stopes clinic in my town ringing a bell and praying loudly for the souls of the poor dead babies. It makes me so angry. DP has had many an argument with them on his way past.

I know it's not the same thing but, when I lived in Oxford and they were building a new lab next to the zoology building you used to get animal rights protesters there.
Some might agree with their opinion, some might not, we just walked past and went into our building.

They had strict rules I place thought on when they were allowed to protest and how they were allowed to do it. As in only on a Thurs afternoon and only from across the road. If they broke the rules or the behaviour swayed towar harassment then they would face punishment. I.e. when they rounded on young students or when they torched the van of a contractor doing work for the uni.

I know it's not as bad as preaching to an often scared woman and I hope there are controls in place to prevent harassment outside clinics.

Normally with C4 they give an opposing view another evening

YANBU

I've seen some right twats on that programme.

I think its good that they do this.

Even on MN you get people saying "Sorry but I dont believe that people actually do this" etc. So showing the extremeist of any belief or organisation is good to show people who perhaps havent seen the harsher side of life that it really does happen.

And lets face it, forwarned is forearmed, so if I was ever in a positon where I needed another termination, I hope I would be better able to cope should I come up against people like this.

BUT I think anyone actually harrassing women outside abortion clinics should be arrested and taken away- it is vile behaviour. Hate them. These women have a right to access a legal abortion clinic without harrassment

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Although as dickwadish as I think they are and as much as I hate them, I think they should have the right of peaceful protest in public places. Harrasment or preventing access should be stamped down on like a ton of bricks, but if they are holding non-inflamatory placards or ask people politely to think about their decision, then I can't see that anything could or should be done to do this.

I realise many people will disagree with me. But from my point of view, I can't very well assert my own right to stand on a picket line or protest outside public buildings (I've done both) if I attempt to prevent others from doing the same, just because I think what they are arguing in favour of is ill concieved, offensive bullshit.

I think they should have the right of peaceful protest in public places. Harrasment or preventing access should be stamped down on like a ton of bricks,

This.

Recently I noticed a group of people kneeling on the pavement outside a Marie Stopes clinic, apparently praying. I suppose that's not harassment if they didn't directly address anyone, but to me it still seemed creepy and weird

I just had a thought.

Why don't all of the anti-choicers wander off to China and stand in front of abortion clinics there?

THAT way they can be prolife and support women as well!

Or is that too hard do you think? Is harassing women only fun when nothing bad will actually happen to you.

Excellent point, Morloth.

Instead of harassing women outside clinics why don't they go to church and ask their god to enforce her own will.

For some reason, I feel more annoyed with men who oppose abortion than I do with women.

Men are entitled to an opinion, I get that. But I just think, piss off mate.

Applauds Morloth

2 thumbs up Morloth.
years ago (1986) there was meant to be a debate at my college pro/anti abortion, very lefty Student union (which I was on as clubs and socs) so all the people we approached for the against refused because being a SU they decided we would hang them from the bar.
the SU decided to go ahead anyway and use the fact they wouldn't appear as a sign they did not have an arguement.
so me who is totally pro choice start arguing in the meeting we need to put the other case even though I don't agree...guess who got to present the other case.
the arguement I was having was approx 30 minutes before the debate, I realised they had a point if I was arguing that both sides should be represented and no one else was prepared to do it...I had too, I was 16 but this wasn't a normal SU it was a joint SU with a University.
so me at late notice standing on a stage and they had the good grace to let me go second because I had no prep time, they 2 people before me male and female, went on and on about it was not a baby it was a bunch of cells...
I won the debate, to my disgrace but I am competitive...I asked 3 random people onto the stage and offered to cut the fleshy tip of their finger off, they obviously refused and i said but it's just biologically a bunch of cells?
I was both proud and angry at myself because the poll at the beginning of the debate was massively pro choice, and yet I won the debate.

so basically I agree with channel 4 both sides should be allowed there moment, but I don't have to agree, (and they do tend to find blinkered people) I think I have said many time here that I would never have an abortion due to me being able from the time I was sexually active to support a baby and my own personal lack of need for a partner, I never worried about having a boyfriend, they had to add to my life. (I am married DH 13 years)

but by god I have supported 2 friends/family thought their abortions and I would do it again for anyone else who needs it, I don't live their life and I don't have their problems.

YANU being unreasonable to be pissed off, but YABU to think he doesn't have a right to spout off his shit.

I've often wondered why abortions aren't performed like a day procedure in smaller hospitals. That way no one knows why you're going in and therefore can't harass you.

I also don't understand why the Westboro church is often banned from picketing funerals of gay/soldier/etc etc but women getting a termination is fair game.

Like someone else mentioned, I know it's not rational but I steam at the ears far more at protesting anti abortion men than I do ant abortion women. Unsure why.

It's 'rational' to be angrier about male anti-abortionists than female ones because they will never find themselves in that situation, they will never go through an unwanted pregnancy, or go through the risks of childbirth, etc.

I would rather they spent their energies dishing out reliable and unbiased contraceptive advice, instead of spending their time standing outside abortion clinics yelling at people. Or perhaps they could financially sponsor the parent who cannot afford to bring up another child.

We have a very active group of these people in our town and I know some of them personally. They are amongst the most aggressive, blinkered people I know, and yet they describe themselves as active Christians.

We do have the right to free speech in this country, and I would defend that absolutely, but context is important. They should be campaigning to change the laws if they feel that strongly, writing to their MPs, etc., not standing outside clinics harassing women who are lawfully seeking abortions.