To think the ressusitation of the over 80s gains very little

[ReallyTired]

I have had several elderly relatives who have had strokes and then been saved by the intervention of modern medicine. They have then suffered a couple years of sheer misery in a nursing home. Their life may have been prolonged, but quality is non existant. Certainly my poor gran keeps saying she wanted to die during the last 18 months of her life. I can't help thinking they would have been happier if they had been allowed to die naturally in the comfort of their own home.

I feel that if we are going to artifically prolong life then we should also have enthanisa for situaitons where prolonging life has been a mistake and caused nothing but misery.

I am not sure what the most ethical way of doing this is. Prehaps elderly people should be encouraged to have a living will to state if they want to be ressusitated or under what kind of circumstances they would want enthanisa.

Somehow we have to have a system to stop greedy relatives from wanting granma killed to save on the nursing home fees.

I agree 100%. IMO, and that of the GMC recently IIRC, too many resus attempts are made.
IME, quality of life is seldom as good as it was pre-resus.
I have an advanced directive and my GP and our solicitor have a copy. If I am admitted to hospital (rarely) I always make sure the ward staff know my wishes.

It is a difficult one. I work in a care home for the elderly. I know a couple of them have DNR (do not rescusitate) instructions on their notes. That is totally their right.
I think that a lot of people have a reasonable quality of life after a stroke though and it is hard to tell straight away what the outcome will be.

I think if the person is like Rip and has stated their wishes then these wishes must be respected. Otherwise, as distressing as it is, i don't think anyone else should play God with who lives and dies. Some people do have a horrible drawn out confused few years in a home but some actually recover.
Ask me again when I'm 79!

What about the doctors too who ignore DNRs because the deaths don't look good on their statistics?

My uncle (76) was asked last week if he wanted to be resuscitated as he is currently in hospital. He has multiple problems, all essentially incurable, so not unreasonable to ask, but unfortunately it really upset my Aunt as it was asked in front of her.

"i don't think anyone else should play God with who lives and dies. "

Surely ressusitation is playing God. Just because we can artifically keep someone alive, does actually mean its desirable.

Its it really such a bad thing for someone to die aged 80 after a long and happy life?

Who has the right to decide though? I don't want some sleep deprived jumped up little first year doctor house officer placing a valuation on my life thanks.

My sister has a Living Will done to document her wishes if she becomes ill. I don't know the finer details but it does include a DNR instruction.

I am more focused on the quality of life issue. This short film got me thinking the other night. I know it's not a DNR scenario, but maybe relevant? God knows...

Motor Nuerone

It depends. Some over 80s still have a good quality of life, better than other people who are younger but have serious health problems.

My gran is 99 and is still a valued member of my family. This last year has been harder for her, but I was still really enjoying taking my dcs round to see her when she was well over 96/97, and they adore her too (probably because she gives them unlimited sugar). I don't think it's impossible to have a good quality of life in later years, and to be an important person.

I agree. My Grandad died in feb. It was a total shock to us all. But they did resuscitate him and he was suffering, struggling for breath for 72 hours before he finally died. It was horrendous to watch and my mum (grandfathers daughter) kept saying of it were a pet, they'd be put to sleep

An elderly friend of mine was asked by a doctor if he wanted to be resuscitated if he had another heart attack and he said no - he was 94 and they respected his wishes.

Who has the right to decide though?

I would think it'd be like the OP suggested, the patient. Have a living will / DNR etc.

It is entirely up to the individual. Personally, if I have an accident resulting in my having little quality of life, regardless of my age, I would not want to be resuscitated. Living wills should be allowed to ensure no-one is kept alive when they wouldn't want to be and equally, no-one is denied being resuscitated if that is what they would want.

I hope that one day my parents will just drop dead, without getting ill first

YY

Go and read The Diving Bell and The Butterfly

It's about an editor of Elle magazine who had a massive stroke which left him with locked in syndrome. It's a tiny book - he dictated it one blink at a time and it took three years to write.

He could only blink one eye - but, he wanted to live.

You can't judge quality of life for others, and you can't know what you would choose until you are in the situation.

I am sorry that your relatives had a miserable time, that must be very upsetting for you all.

But, I'd fight you all the way if you tried to measure my quality of life and whether I'm "worth it"

Euthanasia is one of these things that is a Pandora's box...if you want to open it you are braver than me.

Maryz I used to work in a golf club and it was surprising how many men died there....it was a sort of joke amongst the older ones that they came more often towards the end of their lives in the "hope" that they'd go on the course!

None did whilst I was there thank goodness but many of them were n the 70s and 80s. I loved that job! Serving whisky and sandwiches to gangs of Grandads!

tbh this idea scares me,
now I can see your point, but once they stop with the old, where next....the disabled?

Well in principle I agree that not everyone should be resuscitated - but it needs to be the choice of the individual and to really have a choice that may require a more honest discussion of the matter.

That can't be achieved overnight, so I think it's a good thing for people to be discussing this lots.

That said, you can't really put an age on it - the mother of one of my friends is about 85, driving until a recent operation, an active member of her community and about as different to my GM at that age as a teenager!

My uncle dropped dead putting his socks on (massive heart attack). We found him 2 days later as someone had alerted us that the milk outside his door was piling up.

(not a joke). He was not elderly. He was 56.

But going back to the OP, I would say resuscitation depends on the circumstances and the person. You shouldn't automatically write anyone off just because of age. There are many many things to also consider.

I admit to not being sure how DNR work, or living wills for that matter.

My stepfather wanted to drop dead and said "if I get ill, just put me in a care home". He had a stroke. He went blind. He had dementia. He begged us then "don't put me in a home".

What you think you want when you are healthy and what you actually want when you are sick may be two very different things.

I have a very specific living will and a donor card that I carry with me everywhere next to my debit card. I attach it all together with an elastic band.
I do so because of very specific reasons that I really don't want to go into here; but suffice it to say I have a very close relative that had expressed their wishes to me. I listened and empathised. But didn't think to legalise.
As a consequence they experienced a protracted death.