Proposed home curfews/ travel bans for Mothers banning their ex's from seeing the children?

[WorraLiberty]

AIBU to think that the proposed amendments to the Children's Act is a bit strange when they're talking about 'Home Curfews' for Mothers who break court orders over contact?

How would this help?

I'm absolutely all for fairness and equal parenting but how will a Curfew help and I wonder how it would be Policed?

Link here

solidgold, i totally disagree with 'the reason children of separated parents lose contact with their fathers is because their fathers are either dangerous to them or (more commonly) really can't be arse.'

I know many fathers who are desperate to see there kids and are made jump through hoops by different agencies and do it, to see their kids. I also know fathers who are victims of domestic abuse, but won't leave because they are scared they won't see their kids again because the law and social services, even though they say they don't, side with the mother. These mothers who are evil, manipulative, bitches.

What about the parents who are emotionally damaging their children by choosing to have no part in their children's lives and therefore, ultimately rejecting their own children?

The ones who refuse to financially support them and never see them?

Why is it always the parent who stays with their child who is punished?

I'd like the government to put my ds1's father under house arrest for failing to provide the emotional, physical and financial support his son deserves and needs.

I'd like someone to force him to attend therapy with my ds1 (who is now 18 and in therapy to deal with his fathers rejection) so he can be made to face and address and help with the issues my ds1 is experiencing right now.

I'm slightly can you tell?!

Ps I have never stopped his father from seeing ds1 he just couldn't be arse seeing him.

The point of this is that the sanctions for not paying child maintenance will be the same as for denying contact.

This is about consistency in approach.

It's not about targeted sanctions against mothers.

I quote

"The Government is therefore considering extending enforcement powers to mirror those already agreed by Parliament for enforcing payment of child maintenance. These powers allow the withholding of passports and driving licences as well as the imposition of a curfew order requiring the parent concerned to remain at a specified address between specified hours. The Government is now seeking views on extending these sanctions to apply to court-ordered contact.

This will ensure that both refusal to pay maintenance and refusal to facilitate court-ordered contact give rise to the same, or very similar, penalties. We believe this will reinforce the message that the child is entitled to receive both these things and discourage parents from seeking to trade these as commodities. The role of both parents in a child's upbringing is important and each has a responsibility to meet the needs of the child. Parents must understand that enforcement action is available and will be used where necessary to secure maintenance or contact decided for the benefit of the child."

Some time ago they announced that they would impose simmerler punishments against none paying nrp's I expect it will be much the same much ado about nothing.

My experance (I understand this not to be the norm due to my work) is nrp's who use the courts to attempt to control or intimidate the rp then blaim the rp when there's kids realise they are using them but I still belive that where cp is not an issue court orders should be acted on that's why we have them, the childrens act also states that NO order should be made if it is not needed
by my way of thinking this should mean that an order should only be made if it is in the intrests of the child therefore rather than spout political flannel about inforcing orders they should take more care with the orders they issue.

One story allways has at least two sides and friends/family members of the horror ones (from either parent) often don't get the full version bottom line is we don't know why people do what they do it may be a nasty rp or it may be a nasty nrp it may even be a combo of both hence why more care needs to happen in the process rather than enforcement.

On a different topic I'm always a bit surspicious of fathers 4 justice but that may be because of my experance and my security chaps experance with the family of a bloke who was linked with them the family were lovely he was a nightmare and I am instantly amused when they get touted out to talk about these things

born this is not about good parents like yourself who have never stopped contact with the nrp.

It is not about fathers who choose to not be in their childrens lives.

It is not about nrp not paying for their child.

It is about contact orders being repeatedly broken by the rp once they have been ordered by the courts.

What corlan said. The issue is crap parenting, mothers do not have a monopoly on this.

This (and all govs) seem to have the sweetly naive view that just by passing a LAW somehow everything will be ok. No. That law has to be workable and it has to be enforceable. So when telling an impoverished single mother she can't drive her non existent car doesn't have quite the deterrent effect yo had hoped, what then? Prison is the only realistic sanction for repeated contemptuous breach of court orders and I don't see how that will help the children.

It's too late to try and fix toxic relationships once they have broken down. If the state really thinksit can help, intervention is needed with relationship counselling etc even before the children are born.

SGB what a horrible generalisation! My friend has a daughter whose birthday is today. He has been prevented from seeing her even though he lives less than half a mile away and even though she has begged him to "get mummy to let me see you like I see her". He is not abusive, he is not feckless - he is devastated.

His is ex is doing this ONLY because he has remarried. Simple. And extremely vindictive. I personally think it borders on child abuse to deliberately deprive a child of seeing their parent when child and father are both desperate for contact.

That's about it in a nutshell Angel

Things like this can get taken a bit off topic by people saying "Well why don't they do something about A, B or C?"

But you could say that about anything really.

For now, this is what they're doing.

It is about contact orders being repeatedly broken by the rp once they have been ordered by the courts

Bingo. and although in MNWorld no such problem apparently exists, in RealWorld it does - which is why one of the fastest growing protest groups in the last decade or so has been for fathers' rights. Which is what HMG is responding to.

Worraliberty, you miss the point.

I am in the real world. I am in the court participating in these disputes. For every nasty cow who breaches a contact order there is a violent father or a feckless father or a father who doesn't give a damn.

Polarising this issue and making it the mothers fault helps no one.

What children need are parents who take responsibility for them.

About 10% of contact disputes are intractable. Te law cannot wave a magic wand and make unreasonable people reasonable. The law is only as good it's ultimate sanction, prison.

What these cases need is help, intervention and education about relationships at a very early stage. But as there will be no resouces for such programmes and what little money there is will be cut, don't hold your breath.

But it's easy and cheap to pontificate and pass a few meaningless laws, make a few sanctimonious recommendations. It changes NOTHING. Believe me, I have been on the sharp end ofmthis and every other utterly futile government blitherings for ten years now.

I suppose they are thinking of alternatives to prison and fines? I don't know. I know women who have mucked about with contact and refused an extra half hour because they were devasted and angry to have been left. Obviously that's not right.
I just wish that adult relationships were separated in people's minds from the child/parent relationship. I cringe when my friend tells her dcs how daddy left them but never mind, mummy is still there etc. Likewise, Myleene Klass just gave an interview saying 'how can i tell the girls their dad left them?' - it would be kinder surely, to accept that someone left you, not you and the kids as one masse?

My ex has "restricted access" as per court order, (eg for bloody good reason!!!) My last night out was October 31st 2010. Pray tell - what bloody difference is a curfew going to make to me? Bar possibly restricting my child's weekend trips to the park? Being the SOLE carer is very rarely a woman's direct choice.

I'm not sure what the agenda is, but taken in conjunction with all the other changes to family & educational policies recently I am positive that the welfare of the children isn't at the root of this new nonsense. Family courts already have the power to transfer official residency to the father if the mother is silly about contact for no good reason. What's needed is robust implementation of existing powers not more nonsense.

This is the same government that has gone out of it's way to make life even harder for impoverished parents, (of either sex!) to collect maintenance from feckless wasters by charging for CSA collections. That has restricted access to education for disabled kids via the educational reforms. Slashed funding to agencies that help DV victims such as women's aid. Restricted access to University by imposing high fee levels for children from modest backgrounds.

The bloke who can't even remember to drag his kid home with him from the pub gets even more daft.

I don't think I am missing the point Spero

My point is that just because there are feckless Fathers and Mothers out there, that does not mean nothing should be done about the parents who continually breach contact orders.

They make a mockery of the whole system and often tend only to take their own feelings into account.

If a parent isn't happy with the court granting access to the other parent, they need to provide a proper reason and take it back to court...not just ignore the order.

The bloke who can't even remember to drag his kid home with him from the pub gets even more daft

And that's just a ridiculous statement Lol

Why aren't they putting travel bans on parents who pay nothing for their children?

Because that powers existed for a number of years.

to collect maintenance from feckless wasters by charging for CSA collections

These plans were scrapped. Along with other changes to CMEC.

I wish this was applicable the other way around too. The last time my exh saw our ds was over a year ago through his own choice.

If the same level of political will and enforcement is put into this as is currently directed at the "won't pay maintenance" brigade then this whole thing will turn out to be a load of totally ineffective hot air and posturing. Totally meaningless & of no benefit to the children whatsoever.

If one parent is being spiteful and using the children as weapons - then let them live with the parent who is prepared to put the needs of the children first. The spiteful parent can then be given contact as per a new court decree and adhered to by the parent prepared to demonstrate to the court they will adher to the courts instructions.

If neither parent is prepared to listen to the court then the wider extended family may be capable of looking after the children without treating them as ping pong balls or BOTH parents required to foot the bill for a responsible foster carer until they are able to obtain the capability to behave like adults.

In fact take the sexism out of the whole damn process and work towards creating a system whereby when two people create a life society holds them both equally responsible for that child's physical, emotional and financial welfare until maturity. How's that for radical?

Agree with bochead. Courts can and do transfer residence. But in cases where this can't happen curfews etc are nothing but bloody ridiculous posturing. If I want to go out it costs me £30 in babysitting before I even close the door behind me. Ergo I don't go out very often. There are lots of us single parents who would be delerious with joy if their children's father took the children out for the weekend.

So why is all the emphasis on nasty mothers who dont play ball? Why can men make a baby and then piss off and apparently attract no social stigma at all? I just don't get it.

If the same level of political will and enforcement is put into this as is currently directed at the "won't pay maintenance" brigade then this whole thing will turn out to be a load of totally ineffective hot air and posturing

But the CSA / CMEC already have all the legislative powers they need. Passport / driving licence revocation. The ability to seize assets and bank accounts etc. They even have the ability and right to check an NRP's credit and see available balances on cards etc. Enforcement doesn't get much tougher than that.

Well, my take on it all is it will be looked on in years to come how fathers are so marginalized after separation as a bit bizarre.

You can go from seeing your children every day to twice a fortnight and it's accepted as the norm. I couldn't imagine only seeing my children every other weekend.

I think it all needs a shake-up.

I do think measures are needed to punish PWC that stop access to the NRP for their own reasons rather than the good of the child. Many do use the children as pawns. Perhaps if the courts arrange more 50/50 cases then lots of issues could be avoided.

As for maintainance, both parents should financially support a child not just one. If the PWC is on benefits then its a bit rich to moan about lack or the amount of maintainance. Perhaps this is why its not being tackled first as it would have to be looked at from both parents not just one.

Sparks1 - the CSA have the powers, it's true. They just cab to use em! If they did the child poverty rates in this country wouldn't be so abysmal.

I like many, many Mums got tired of utterly fruitless chasing, detective work, visits & letters to the MP etc, etc after a few years & decided to just get on with raising my child. It isn't fair but it remains the practical reality for all too many children that the NRP CHOOSES not to support their offspring financially. I like many, many Mums haven't seen a penny in maintenance for YEARS. My son's dad doesn't live some secretive fly by night existence either & has had a consistent work, tax & accomodation record.

If a parent (I wont say man cos actually the record for NR mothers is even worse) doesn't want to pay. Not a lot happens in reality. On the other side if a parent doesn't obey a court order for contact? Not a lot happens in reality.

For me it's two sides of the same utterly ineffective coin, where children are all too often the ultimate losers.

I totally agree with Huansagain.

*Sparks1 - the CSA have the powers, it's true. They just cab to use em! If they did the child poverty rates in this country wouldn't be so abysmal.

I like many, many Mums got tired of utterly fruitless chasing, detective work, visits & letters to the MP etc, etc after a few years & decided to just get on with raising my child. It isn't fair but it remains the practical reality for all too many children that the NRP CHOOSES not to support their offspring financially. I like many, many Mums haven't seen a penny in maintenance for YEARS. My son's dad doesn't live some secretive fly by night existence either & has had a consistent work, tax & accomodation record.

If a parent (I wont say man cos actually the record for NR mothers is even worse) doesn't want to pay. Not a lot happens in reality. On the other side if a parent doesn't obey a court order for contact? Not a lot happens in reality.

For me it's two sides of the same utterly ineffective coin, where children are all too often the ultimate losers*

Having spent years on CSA related boards that NRP's and PWC's posted on i can't disagree with your assessment.

The easy targets are the ones who get chewed up by the system whilst the real dodgers carry on regardless.

Imo the whole system of separated parenting in this country is a complete mess,at both ends of the spectrum. I think the politicians underestimate the popularity they'd receive by increasing the effectiveness of the current agencies involved.