to think private healthcare is a con?

[ChocolateBiscuitCake]

DH has private health cover for our family through work. It is a very comprehensive scheme and we have claimed for a few things over the years and never really thought much of it.

DH starts a new job next month which does not have a healthcare policy so I have been shopping around today to find a policy for my family.

But the more I speak to insurers, the more I am starting to think that the whole thing is a complete con when you are no longer under a company scheme?

The general gist of getting new cover is:

• We are no longer covered for pre-existing conditions (DS's reflux, my PCOS and monitoring of moles)
• If we make any claims, we lose a no claims bonus so the cost each year will increase if we make claims (previously, the cost may have gone up but DH's ex-employers covered the cost).
• Bupa, for example, will only pay 'up to' a certain amount to see certain consultants. They essentially cover for adequate doctors and may not cover the 'top' consultants so we would have to pay anyway
• No pregnancy related cover (have ongoing SPD post pregnancy and have an abdominal hernia that will need attention once I am certain we are having no more children!)

They want to charge £3-4k for our family of five for a year.

AIBU to think that we are unlikely to spend that much even if we pay to see specialists directly? Other than the absence of a private room and TV (!!), surely the NHS cover if one of the children got really sick suddenly?

I am so confused - it all just seems a bit of a con. Or am I missing something? What is the real benefit of Private Health Cover (when not through a company policy?)

Can you approach the insurers who do your husband's current company policy and ask them if you can switch to a personal policy on the same t's and c's - so all conditions you are currently covered for would still be covered?

I am surprised your hernia operation is excluded. I am being covered by AXA for a whole load of extremely expensive treatment for birth injuries.

Unfortunately I have had to have several operations in the past few years, as well as all my birth injury stuff. Fine, I could have had the treatment on the NHS. But with private health care I can see the consultant with the most experience in my particular problem who is the best person to treat me, rather than the registrar who happens to be on rotation in the hospital I happen to fall within the catchment area of. Just thinking of my specialist gynae surgeon treating me now - there's no way I would have got to see him on the NHS, as he just to too removed both in terms of PCT and in terms of level of care from the hospital I would have been referred to. My situation is not run of the mill at all, and frankly I dread to think what state I'd be in now if I'd just pitched up at my local NHS hospital.

I'm not dissing the NHS - I've seen people have fantastic care that is second to none. But I would never be without private cover.

Up until recently I'd have said NHS all the way as I couldn't fault it,it has saved my life and that of one of my children.Aftercare on wards a bit pants but hey I can put up with that.

I think things are changing though and I had to have a minor op privately recently.What I had done was 100 times worse because of the wait(I'd still be waiting if I hadn't gone private).I got to choose the top consultant(I picked my time) instead of getting a registrar.I was moaning to said consultant re the NHS handling of my minor condition and he said it's only going to get worse and the whole of the NHS is going the same way.

This incident scared me and we're going to start buying into dp's company scheme.

If you're mainly worried about the cancer risk, then it's worth it as cancer care on the NHS can be absolutely awful, both in terms of facilities, availability of drugs, waiting times and quality of care whilst in hospital.
If you can afford the cover and it will give you peace of mind, then take it out and hope you never have to use it. That's how most insurance works, surely. If everyone expected to get full 'value' from what they paid, the insurers would all go bust.
Having said that, I would always use the NHS wherever possible because much of the private health game is indeed a bit of a scam and a lot of a faff (often).

Private health insurance is fiendishly difficult to buy - or at least, it's fiendishly difficult to work out what you need and whether you are paying over the odds for what you do want or are likely to need.

I interviewed a few very senior doctors about this before the last election, and some personal finance experts. The message was 'put the money you would have spent on premiums and put it in an ISA. Then if the NHS starts going down the tubes, at least you have that money so you can jump the queue if necessary'. Probably not the most ethical stance, but in practical terms it's hard to fault - if you are lucky enough to have the spare cash in the first place.

Oh and if you are offered workplace cover but have a choice about whether to take it up or not, do. Just in case it comes in handy. Far cheaper to take part in a workplace plan, where risk is pooled, than to pay for your own policy, I was told. And if you leave that employer but are offered the chance to keep the policy, do - it will be cheaper than starting your own policy and you will be covered for any existing health conditions (a new insurer might decide some time down the line that a condition actually did exist back then, even if you don't think you have anything now...).

It is a pain - it wouldnt exist if the insurance companies didn't make stacks of money from it - but it has its uses. I like the fact you only ever see a top consultant, generally of your choosing (if you don't mind paying a top up), and they are the only person you deal with. No sitting around for hours to see some junior doctor in clinic.
But for some conditions, e.g. cancer, you won't ever get anywhere better than the Marsden, for example.

My mum is dying from lung cancer, she is 65. Had she had private health cover she would have had the diagnosis months earlier which might have made a difference to her life expectancy. There have been countless mistakes from the 'wonderful' NHS, from the radiologist 'missing' the liver metastases to mum being sent home with the incorrect medication doses - literally it would depress me mightily to actually document the catalogue of errors that have occurred. We have never seen the same doctor more than once in the oncology clinic so we have a slightly different opinion/prognosis each month - and no follow up on any of the ideas the last doctor had. Our specialist lung cancer nurse is great, but she is mostly on study leave so to be honest she isn't much bloody use to mum at all. I hope nobody else ever has this rubbish experience of the NHS that we have had, it is very disheartening.

I wouldn't be without private healthcare. Fortunately we have always had it through work but even if we didn't it would be a priority. I have had resonable care from the NHS but without exception the private care we have had has been in a different league. I feel greatly reassured that when I need to see someone I can choose who I want to see, where I want to see them, am guaranteed continuity of care with a consultant rather than a registrar and the knowledge that if I have any questions I can get a response from the consultant or his /her secretary almost immediately. There is no waiting and no faffing about.

Theminky I'm so sorry about your mum.
You and Lizcat make a good point.

Cancer care in the NHS is ok depending on where you are (near a big cancer centre) and where the tumour is. (Breast gets loads of funding - disproportionately so.) There are astonishing new targeted therapies available, but due to the Benthamite principles of the NHS, they're often not available early on in treatment - they're either used as a last resort, or not used at all. Over in private care, if your consultant thinks it'll do you good, you get it. And that's the competitive advantage you pay for. Plus the other bits like choosing your specialist, continuity of care etc which all co ntribute to better outcomes.

When I read about people saying they "can't fault" the service they've had from the NHS, I do wonder what they're comparing it to. I think a reasonable question at each consultant appointment is "if I was a private patient how might my treatment be different?" The answers are sometimes surprising.

I remember a financial adviser said that health insurance in the UK (where you have the NHS for urgent or catastrophic care) is effectively bad finance. Far better to save the money and dip into that pot as and when you need private healthcare. That way you save the cut that the insurance company takes for itself and you get the interest on any money saved. So basically put aside the 300 odd pounds a month that you'd spend on health insruance and build up a health fund for yourself and use that as and when you need it.

All insurance is like that though isn't it, if you can afford to cover the costs yourself and the insurance isn't compulsory then you are, on the whole, better to insure yourself rather than pay the insurance companies profits and subsidise false and inflated claims (though that is not such a problem with medical insurance).

Yes, that's right. But with healthcare you're covered for anything catastrophic through the NHS. Private health insurance is a luxury so you can 'afford' to take the risk of being uninsured. I'm in the US right now and it would be a terrible risk to go uninsured here as you could lose everything which obviously isn't the case in the UK.

I work in a private hospital and one of our perks is private healthcare. I've not had to use it. I agree with going private with regards to wait times, picking your consultant, private rooms (nothing worst then being ill in a bay full of other patients), appointment times to suit you where possible.

BUT should you become very ill post operatively then you are not in the best place. Out of hours there is only a registrar dr on site in most hospitals, now this dr is in charge of everything, from looking at wound problems, prescribing painkillers etc. they are NOT ideal in emergency situations. However, most private health hospitals will not agree for you to have you operation done there if they believe you are at risk of any immediate post op problems, hence your op will most likely go ahead in an nhs hospital.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense but im on my phone and working a night shift!

What Swoosh said.

The private hospital I worked in was the same, out of hours was a registrar, and because they had maternity services it was an obs/gyn registrar - not the best person to see you if your stent collapses.

Also if you are transerred from a private hospital to NHS because they cannot cope with your post op emergency your NHS care is then chargable.

Private hospitals do not have to employ trained personell. So the nurses caring for you may actually be health care assistants.

The hospital I worked at also 'promoted' a cardiographer to a tech. In the NHS she would have had to complete a degree before promotion.

You can get fantastic care both privately and on the NHS, but don't be impressed by the private bathroom alone, before going to a private hospital ask how many qualified nurses / physios / renal tech (depending on your treatment) and get in writing what staff they have and what qualifications they have.

sashh all our patients are looked after by registered nurses, many specialising in the area you have had your op for. we also have hca's to help with washes and toileting etc.

Sassh makes some very good points. There seems to be some sort of blind expectation that private healthcare is perfect, never any errors etc etc which actually isn't the case. No system is perfect its just in the private system you pay for things to go wrong!

So if you were offered private cover from work for say £70 a month to cover a family of 5 is it better to take it or save the £70 a month?

My DH was in a motorbike accident last year. He went to an NHS hospital and was sent home with no x-rays or anything. Went to see the GP who told him the pain in his wrist was due to a cyst and sent him home. Told him the pain in his knee was due to a muscle strain and sent him home with some anti-inflammatories.

Eventually pushed for a referral through my work's private insurance and has had 3 operations to repair his knee, ankle and wrist. It's the fobbing off at the lower end that does my head in at the GP. They just want to get you out of the door as soon as possible with a prescription in hand. They don't look for the root cause.

I've also used it to see a physio for neck pain which you can self-refer for. 6 sessions and it was all sorted. My mum had to wait 4 months for a similar appointment on the NHS.

Depends what you are insuring againist Rockpool in my girlfriends case so far to keep her alive it has cost her insurance company £100,000 in the last 2 years and they have just commited to another £40,000 to fund her next 36 weeks chemo that is not including the 6 pints of blood she has had transfused in the last 3 weeks.

If you are thinking about say Carpal Tunnel surgery that I had the other month total cost of treatment including physio was £1200. That was surgery under local anaesthetic.

Rockpool - I'd take it.I'm not sure what the cost to me is TBH (there is one, its a taxable benefit) but because of DHs issues its a no-brainer for me.

IME children get good service from the NHS and it seems there aren't many paediatric specialists who work in the private sector (someone correct me if I'm wrong about this) so really its the adults in your family who may most need cover.

Private healthcare is great; it saves the NHS lots of money by removing from the system and waiting lists the people who have cover. I would personally never have it though, having worked as the medical officer (when a very junior doctor) in several private hospitals. Frankly the 'care' there was just scary, and I would not want any of my loved ones in such a vulnerable position.

Where I worked I was the only doctor on site after 6pm, and no consultant was within 20 minutes of the hospital. We had patients with gynae and surgical problems in beautiful plush rooms with carpets, and with one doctor qualified for 2 years, working 12-hour nights for 2 weeks on the trot, as the only emergency care available to some very unwell post-op patients.

Private medicine, though, IS something I would use myself for very selected problems (like something the NHS does not fund, or something non-urgent where I do not want to wait). If I decided to use it I would pay at the time rather than wasting money on insurance costs, and I would ensure any surgical procedure was in a private wing of an NHS hospital, where the NHS medical registrar (by far and away the best person to attend you in an emergency) would be available.

I come from a medical family, and between the 12 or so doctors in the family, we have worked in most specialties, and in both NHS and private medicine. None of us have private insurance, but most of us have used private medicine from time to time. Otherwise, it would ALWAYS be the NHS, especially for any urgent care.

NHS has let me down a few times now! Would definitely go for private health insurance if possible in the future.