to suggest my DM makes her tenant's life 'uncomfortable' to get him to move out?? ask what your landlord would to do to make you movewho are renting privately move out

[norbettsauntie]

My DM owns a house that she rents out to a vile man who has stopped paying his rent. (He lives there on his own). DM is a bit of a sucker for a sob story and has allowed this man to get into several thousand pounds worth of arrears before taking any action to get possession of the property. She's now started proceeding after a big nudge from me but the process takes months and she probably won't have possession of the property until about September.

I've suggetsed that she should do something (not masked men with machettes or anything like that) but maybe make him 'uncomfortable' in some way. Any ideas that aren't illegal?

I would begin the legal process. But it may be worth seeking advice to see whether you can approach them and offer to write off the debt if they just leave. Not very fair but that way you can save legal fees and get a paying tenant in faster. Good luck.

CrikeyOHare: Provides the most balanced argument though I would add that Courts do not ?side? with the tenant but merely apply the relevant housing law. Moral arguments weigh lightly on the scales of justice.

Thelittlestkiwi: Provides the most practical solution and I am of the view your DM should heed the advice or (if the tenant is housing law savvy) she may end up spending more with parasitical Solicitors.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos: I was going to ignore the comment but the more I thought about it I came to the conclusion that she/he should not be allowed near a key-board to comment on such matters. And just to set the matter straight stealing from a shop and handing the items back when caught does not prevent you from being prosecuted for theft. See Theft Act :o

Noqontrol: You are right regarding (up to) 3 x deposit as provided by the 2004 Housing Act but the law changed 6th April 2012 in the ?The Localism Act? regarding tenancy deposits and the responsibilities of LL.

The link I said I would provide in my previous post is hidden in the depths of my computer hard drive and yet to be discovered as being a man you ladies out there will know us men are totally dis-organize so I throw up this link instead to do with an illegal eviction and harassment. Although not £130,000 it still is an eye watering £81,215 awarded to the tenant and he owed rent arrears!!

Harassment and unlawful eviction Cashmere v Walsh, Downing and Veale:

www.atro-online.com/caselaw.html

Thanks for the link. I'll have a look at that later.

Silly me?.the case I was thinking of in my first post was the case that I provided a link for in my second post!!

The tenant was awarded £131,445 and he was in arrears!!

LANDLORDS BE AWARE!

www.atro-online.com/caselaw.html

OP, I hope you have taken the quickest route to eviction for the circumstances. Have you served a Section 8 notice? A section 21 notice? Both? Obviously only is these relate to the agreement the tenant has.

Afraid you can't do anything to make them move out.

With regards to the bills, keep all the paperwork regarding the tenancy safe. When they eventually move out, your mum should read the meters (if present) contact the relevant companies with the readings, and offer to fax/post them the tenancy agreement and the notices served to end the tenancy if the company is in any doubt about who the bills belong to.

Just to clear up a few points for those interested in housing law or have a problematic tenant/landlord.

A section 21 notice can be issued during the fixed term of the tenancy AND when the tenancy becomes periodic. The forms, though called the same, are different. Issue the wrong one at the wrong time in the wrong format and the judge will throw it out and you have to start again. They are for seeking a non-fault possession order. You cannot claim rent arrears.

A section 21 cannot be issued if you have not protected the deposit!!

A section 8 is to seek possession and to ask the Court to award an order for rent arrears. They can only be issued when the arrears are eight weeks/two months (and that depends on how the rent was paid under the tenancy agreement. Do it wrong and the Court will throw it out and you have to start again.

You cannot issue proceedings under both section 21 and section 8 at the same time.

In all of these cases there tends to be disagreement on both sides and the best way forward is to reach a compromise without involving the Courts. My experience is that for every bad tenant there are ten bad LL?s and most have Inland Revenue problems that they do not wish to expose!!

If the said Tenancy is in an unlicensed HMO and income is not declared Councils are using the Proceeds of Crime Act to get back all the rents that have been paid from day one of the tenancy in question plus all previous tenancies.

Protection from Eviction Act is 1977 not ?97 as I said in a previous post. Silly me

Sorry, its her fault she let it get this bad, she needs to do it the legal way and let the courts sort it out.

I am a LL and no way would I let rent get that much in arrears. Make sure he is given the correct notices and keep it legal or it will just make things worse.

I KNOW how frustrasting it can be when a tenant owes rent but the law is the law and needs to be kept to.

I know you cant do anything but it is totally and utterly shit that people get away with it for such a long time. I would be tempted to chuck all their stuff out on the street and tell them to get the fuck out. why is it ok for people to cause criminal damage and effectively commit theft in the UK?

I have the oppoaite problem, my brilliant tenant has just completed 5 years, we wanted to give him a free months rent and the agent said we were mad and refused to do it.

Stay within the legal process as others have said.

theodokaris, can you "reward" your tenant by doing some improvements on eg insulation or boiler efficiency (eg a Gas Saver).

It'll cut his bills while being a good investment for the property. Win-win.

NB By "side with the tenant" I did not mean morally, I meant legally. I bet the judge would have every sympathy, but the law is the law and you will have broken it while the tenant wouldn't have done.

Crap, I know, but these laws must exist in order to protect tenants from scumbag landlords (NOT your DM, OP!). We don't want to go back to the days of people being put out on the streets in the middle of the night, which used to happen regularly.

Just unfortunate when decent LLs get shat on by vile tenants :(

?I bet the judge would have every sympathy?

None, zero, zilch do judges have sympathy for a LL who harasses and commits, attempted or otherwise, an illegal eviction. That is why the damages awarded are punitive and exemplary in order to send out a clear warning to LL?s that society will not tolerate such behaviour. And I agree. I would make an award just for thinking about it.

Hopefully it won't take that long if a section 8 notice has been issued - I had to do one in a June a few years ago, and despite me being totally inexperienced, the postal strike meaning the tenant could claim papers weren't received, and it coming down to using bailiffs to evict the tenant, the tenant and partner who had moved in were both out by mid-September.

The court was helpful and the court bailiff was really lovely (to me, anyway - but polite to the tenant). Stick to the legal way.

No you can't harass a tenant.

If your mum didn't want the risk of the rent not being paid she shouldn't have become a landlord - she should have stuck her cash in the bank and collected the interest instead. I do get really fed up that landlords seem to view tenants as rent-paying machines rather than people. Maybe this guy really can't pay his rent. Maybe he's just a tight git. Either way, harassing him is illegal.

I daresay your mum likes being a landlord when the money's rollling in. Well, the rent not being paid or void periods or damage to the property is the other side of the coin.

Too many property programmes present investing in property as a one-way bet. It's not - it's risky and if your mum - or you (what does it have to do with you, by the way?) can't cope with this, then she shouldn't be a landlord. She at least has a choice. I doubt her tenant has any choices but to rent - probably can't afford to buy and can't get social housing these days.

I so agree Breadandbutterfly