DS got punched in the head today at school

[BorisJohnsonsHair]

And then was made to apologise to the thug who did this for "winding him up"! I'm really pissed off. This child is a big bruiser with "anger issues" and is always picking on DS (who is 2 years younger). It's usually when they're playing football and thugboy gets angry and lashes out, often kicking him in the shins or tripping him up on purpose. All DS did was celebrate when his team scored.

Apparently it ended with both boys being made to apologise and the threat of "no more football for anyone" if it happens again.

I really think it should have been "no more football" for the bully, not for everyone else, as he's the one with the problem; everyone else always plays really nicely together. He gets involved and suddenly he's lashing out all over the place, swearing etc.

AIBU to go to the head and demand that something is done about him? Or am I over-reacting? My thoughts are that his anger issues aren't going to get any better if everyone has to give in to him all the time; surely it will just make him more of a bully?

Would appreciate any thoughts on this.

There's a huge chasm of difference between a kid with anger issues and bullying though. A bully will target a victim (often repeatedly). A kid with anger issues will lash out at whoever is in the way.

Also, presuming the OP's ds doesn't have SN and the other kid probably does (or such a crap home example that he knows no better), yes the other lad needs support.

No it's not nice for the OP's ds to get thumped but I think a bit of compassion is required until full story is known.

I agree manic but think there have been some 'general' comments on the thread as opposed to the OP's specific situation - we do only know one side of the story.

That said Lynette - really??? So if the OP's kid was gloating it would be fine for them to be punched in the head?

"Your implication is that the OP's DS should know better, but that the boy who punched him must be in need of support"

Almost: the OP's DS needs to learn his behaviour was not kind, (and, in this case wise) as well as the puncher needing to learn his behaviour is wholly unacceptable.

No, it wasn't fine for the OP's son to be punched it the head! But I don't think it was inappropriate that he was made to apologise for winding the other child up. For what it's worth, I think the punching child should have an exclusion. If we don't support these children, and help them to understand punching is totally unacceptable, they will still be punching people as adults. Best to get these things sorted out when they are still children, IMO.

Actually, I really couldn't bear my DC to be "celebrating" like that. I would be very firm with such behavior.

I dont think anyone is saying it is 'fine' to punch people but that, if gloating was going on, both boys are to blame. I actually think he probably wasnt gloating but that the other boy is very sensitive and thought he was. Its a hard call for the teachers who didnt see it happen.

I think 'dont provoke the bully' is a skewed way of seeing it. I'd rather call it 'no scapegoats'. Yes children bully, they make each others lives a misery and sometimes it is for no apparent reason at all. But similarly children quickly identify who the 'naughty one' is and will tell tales on this child that they would not on others or expect punishments for just that child and not others. I have seen random attacks and they are horrendous but they are fairly rare. More often than not there is more to the story than 'he hit for NO REASON!'

I have had this experience with a group of boys and quickly found through discussing with midday staff and watching from a window that they would begin a game that they know they are not allowed to play (games that involve running around slapping each other on the arm for example ) and when 'the naughty boy' gets over excited and takes it too far (slaps someone too hard or in a bad place) they run to the midday staff expecting him to be immediately punished for slapping.

They got very cross to find themselves in at break for playing inappropriate games (yes the boy who slapped too hard was punished more severely) but after a few of these events they quickly learnt a) to tell the truth or you will spend all of your break getting to the bottom of the issue b) not to play silly games where accidents are likely to happen c) it is never just 'his' fault

I don't think a child who has been punched in the head needs to apologise at all (unless he punched the other child first). Punching is wrong. Punching in the head is extremely dangerous and must NOT be tolerated, and the child who did it, and every other child, needs to know it is a major offence. Making the victim apologise confuses the issue.

Don't see how OP can be outraged until she has the full story; some witnesses to what really happened. OP doesn't really know what her son was doing to "celebrate". He may have been shouting "We are the Champions, you are the Losers!" for all we know.

Dd has the tongue of a wasp & will not shut up sometimes, she just keeps going on and on saying vile things to her brothers until they lash out; then she comes running to me & I'm thinking You could have walked away from that conflict at any time. It's a life skill she needs to learn.

I think you need to speak your son and find exactly what happened, before going up to school all guns blazing.

Depends what is meant by 'celebrating' if it was a normal goal celebration than clearly your son has been unfairly treated.

However if celebrating is shorthand for goading this lad in order to get a reaction, than to be honest I have little sympathy for your son and he got what was coming to him.

"However if celebrating is shorthand for goading this lad in order to get a reaction, than to be honest I have little sympathy for your son and he got what was coming to him."

Wow. That's the way wars start, you know, ComposHat. Do you really deep down believe that if a child "goads" another child, he deserves to be punched in the head? I hope you're not a parent, because if you are I feel deeply sorry for your children.

Some of the reactions remind me of a famous cartoon in which two social workers are leaning over the bleeding battered body of someone lying in the gutter. One says "This is really terrible." The other one says, "Yes, the person who did this must really be in need of help."

Thanks for all your comments. I have asked for this thread to be deleted as someone in RL has recognised me and I do not want to start a RL bunfight. To update, I spoke to the head, who said they had asked DS to apologise, but thought she'd made it clear to him that he wasn't to blame, and that apologising was just a nice reciprocal act. I said he didn't realise that, so she is going to talk to him again to explain that the other boy was in the wrong, not him.

There's a huge chasm of difference between a kid with anger issues and bullying though. A bully will target a victim (often repeatedly). A kid with anger issues will lash out at whoever is in the way.

Don't care - punch my child on the head = instant response from me, leaving the school in no doubt there will be consequences if it happens again.

Glad that the head has clarified it.

And so you don't consider SN in these circumstances, Whatmeworry? Nice to have a bit of compassion and empathy.

Think the head was wrong in this case - if your ds has done nothing wrong then apologising is not a nice reciprocal act, that would be being able to accept the bully's apology graciously.

If the head hadn't explained it very well and your ds thought he was being made to apologise because he was also in the wrong, the bully may also have interpreted it in the same way and used it to justify his behaviour now or when doing it again in the future.

This would actually make me quite cross and question the head's (teachers? Can't remember now and on phone so will take ages to check) judgement.

And so you don't consider SN in these circumstances, Whatmeworry? Nice to have a bit of compassion and empathy

Compassion and empathy is pretty darn useless once there is brain damage.

Do you really deep down believe that if a child "goads" another child, he deserves to be punched in the head?

I was referring to very situations - In particular a very specific 'game' a previous poster referred to it as 'bear baiting' where a group of kids will deliberately wind up a child either verbally or with little prods pokes and slaps until they lash out. They then a) try and run away or b) go running to school staff to get the other kid 'done.'

If a child winds up a child like in a calculated and instrumental manner with the sole intention that another child lashes out, then they shouldn't be surprised when that happens or expect too much sympathy. Both parties are equally culpable then.

As the op has clarified this situation didn't occur and her son was the victim of an unprovoked attack and shouldn't have been made to apologise.

Absolutely take it further. But do check the facts.

I am committed to non violence- we are a pacifist household and I never condone hitting.

But I have seen my ds do goal celebrations that I would most definitely have turned a blind eye if someone had thumped him for....!

Not any more, by the way. His football team were given a clear choice- celebrate in a civilised manner or don't play next week.

I'll still stick with the compassion and empathy thanks.

And what ComposHat said. Goading behaviour is bullying. Lashing out in anger is usually just that and not purposely seeking to intimidate.

i have been on the other side of this as my child is the one that lashed out, after being 'goaded' or provoked, we and the school made it clear to our ds2 that lashing out is not ever acceptable but i do think children that goad and wind up others need to learn that that is NOT ok and yes they should apologise for it.

i was accosted by the parent of the boy who ds2 hit and i tried to explain to them that yes we had some behaviour issues with ds2, which we the school and camhs were dealing with and had the spoken to me in a calm manner (instead of ranting at me about my 'violent' son) then i would have explained.

ds2 is doing fine now and the children who were winding him up ( a group of older boys) have been told it is not acceptable, in the teachers words they 'saw my son as a toy they could wind up and set off' this IS bullying and is not ok.

violence is not ok either but you DO have to look at the bigger picture of what came before etc, i know that when my childrne come running to me saying htye have been hit or kicked i always try and get the full picture of what happened first, no child deserves to be hit or kicked but yes i will pick my child up on their behaviour if they have been winding another kid up!