to think that DS should be able to go on his annual trip with nursery without me?

[choceyes]

I'm not sure if I am being unreasonable or not, just wanted to gather some opinions really. Fully prepared to be told that IABU.

DS, 3.5yrs goes to nursery 3 days a week Mon-Wed. Once a year the whole nursery goes on a day out somewhere special. Last year it was a kiddies theme park kind of thing, this year it is Chester Zoo. They are going on a Thursday. Adults can accompant too.

I liked DS to go because he will enjoy it very much, especially with all his buddies from nursery (he has been going since he was 12 months, so they are like family to him). I gave them the money for his place about a week ago and they took it along with the filled in form.

Now they are saying that as Thursday isn't a nursery day for him, I would have to come along as well (nothing like this was mentioned in the letter). I would have maybe gone if it not for the fact I also have a DD, 21 months in the same nursery who is also not in nursery that day, and who I didn't put forward for the outing, as I think she is too little still for such a thing (it is a whole day thing, and she doesn't travel well at all).

Last year, they took DS without me for the day out, even though it wasn't a nursery day for him. So this seems to be a new policy?

I think nursery should be making this trip possible for all children that attend the nursery, and not "discriminate" (not sure of a better word) the children that are not attending on that specific day? Some of the children are part timers, others full timers, and as I understand this is a treat for everybody.

What do you think?

I'm temped to go along anyway with DD in tow (although will be a nightmare in a coach with her for an hour each way). But thought it odd of the nurseyr to do this, especially when they didnt do this last year. But new management though.

I think that you not BU at all.

Maybe they don't have enough helpers this year. But if they needed you to come along, they should have made it plain from the start.

I'm guessing it's due to the need for a certain adult:child ration on school trips. It's something like 1:8 on their own premises but only 1:4 on trips out. So they will already need extra adults just to cover the children who would normally be in nursery anyway. Extra children means extra adults.

I should add though that they should have warned parents about this when they first sent out letters about the trip.

Id have a serious word with the nursery. How can they jus expect you to drop everything and go with him at the last minute.
I would take your child and make sure she runs riot on the bus and make it plain obvious to the nursery staff and everyone else on the trip why u have had to go.

yes appreciate that they need extra adult helpers, totally understandable. But they should have said that they need a certain numbers of adults to accompany them. Which is actually waht the letter said, now from what I remember. It said the outing relied upon there being enough adults coming along.
But it also said that 15 places were being reserved for children coming along without adults, and I was one of the first to book him in saying that I wouldn't be coming.
It seems like they haven't got enough adults wanting to come, so they are trying not to take the children that aren't attending on that day (which is not fair)....unless the parents come along. which is not what they said earlier!

At 21 months she'll love the zoo, and probably be fine with the excitement on the coach.

I think it would be reasonable to say that because your ds is not in nursery that day then if they do not have the ratio of adults to child high enough then you have to go. It would be unreasonable to expect someone who is normally working to take the day off to up the adult ratio.

It may be they've had a much higher uptake of children who don't go on Thursdays, or a much lower uptake of adults. There's not much they can do if the adult to child ratio is too low.

It's not last minute though, it is still over 3 weeks away.

I can't think of many worse things than being with a bunch of nursery school children for the day - apart from being stuck on a coach with them - so I'd just tell the nursery that my DC wouldn't be going after all. If I wanted my child to have a day out that week I'd take him and my other DC on my own.

yes I probably will go with DD. She seriously hates buses/coaches and cars though!
Although now I'm just temped to just go with them whenever it is a nice day (as the weather is so iffy this month), rather than a set day when it might be pouring with rain. Although DS would have missed out on his friends that way.

GrahamTribe Exactly!! the thought does fill me with horror! I'd much rather go ourselves on the train.

I think that as it's not your DS's normal nursery day then you have to put up with it, I'm afraid. If you can't make it, see if another mum can go and supervise your child along with hers (I did that for another mum when DS1 was at nursery - although that wasn't by coach, I drove them both in my car). Otherwise you will have to take your other DD with you, perhaps in a car though, rather than the coach.

Just a point here - I hear what other posters are saying about the adult/child ratio and this is a fair point with regard to choceyes's own child. If she is needed purely to care for her own son it's understandable (although a PITA in the way it's been done) but I'm wondering if the nursery are then banking on choceyes to be caring for other kids too, so that they can comply with the law on the adult/child ratio.

And whether choceyes will be made aware of that before she agrees to go.

choceyes. Then read my next post carefully!!!

Well it seems pretty reasonable to me, that if they are factoring staff into the ratios, then it is the children that attend on that day that the staff are being paid for - if extra children (who don't normally attend on a Thursday) go on the trip, then they are saying that they can come (will book tickets, arrange transport whatever) but they will need an adult to accompany them.
Possibly they assumed a lot more parents would want to go than do (or can) so had hoped everyone who was put forward to go without a parent would be able to, but, as it turns out, there aren't enough extra adults, so it's only right that the children who already have a paid for place at Nursery on that day, "take up" the paid staff that are going.

YABU. They are a business, not family or friends taking your child out for a fun day (unless of course you are paying a full days extra fees, on top of the excursion cost- then YANBU). It's a shame but there's always going to be some event you can't attend.

Presumably the nursery only employs a certain number of staff and probably the nursery on thursday already takes as many children as they can. The ratio for trips out is higher so perhaps they based their numbers on the number of adults who typically attend and the likelihood of children not in the nursery that day wanting to attend. Perhaps more children wanted to attend than they expected and they dont have enough adults so are having to ask parents to come too.

As you say, it isnt last minute, they are giving you three weeks notice.

I am not sure what you want them to do. Do you want them to take your DS and ignore the ratio against all guidelines? Do you think they ought to pay for extra staff to cover children on an outing for a nursery day that you dont even pay for? Sorry, but I think YABU.

Personally I would take both DC on a different day.

I understand that too BackforGood Idocrazythings.

but then what was this about 15 places for children that aren't accompanied about then? Surely they could have only meant children that aren't attending that day, like my DS? No parents who work on that day, thus child attending that day would be expected to go on this trip?
And if my DS was one of the first to confirm without a parent, I can't see how they can say now that he can't go? It just baffles me really.

Decided not to go now, GrahamTribe you might be right. I might have to look after other children too
Looked up the prices and it will be cheaper to go on our own as nursery was going to charge DD for attending too, but she can go free as she is under 2.

I think you're wise, choceyes. I could just see you arriving at the zoo to be told that you couldn't wander off with DS as you're needed to make up the adult numbers and so would have to stay with the main party all day, caring for other DC. For another thing, looking at the awful weather I think you're being smart by choosing your day to go on a zoo trip rather than being tied to going on a certain date.

I would assume that they have the staff to cater for the children normally in nursery that day but not those who aren't there. So I don't think it is unreasonable for parents to go with the "extras" as it were. BUT they should have told you at the time so you know what you are signing up for. DD's nursery never do days out like this, thankfully.

I work in a nursery and we have a trip each year, the children that attend that day are looked after by the staff. Children who do not attend are invited on the trip but must be accompanied by an adult!
I think you are being unreasonable to expect a free day of child care for your child. Either go on the trip too or don't send your child!!!!!!

Am I the only one who has really enjoyed end of year trips, I like going on them with my kids and enjoying being part of the group. It has never occurred to me that I would not go with my kids. Just go, take a picnic and enjoy it. The other parents that are there will enjoy the company. I really don't see what the big deal is, I have three children and always took the younger one with me.

They haven't handled it brilliantly, but presumably they're normally a good nursery and I'm sure your DS will love the trip with all his friends, so shrug it off and go with DD.

You have my sympathies...I vividly remember my ds's last nursery visit at 3 1/2. I had a 19 month old dd and was early pg with dd2 and incredibly nauseous (really helped by an hour and a half coach journey). Ds was a complete limpet and wouldn't leave my side, dd1 was a nightmare and kept running off (and I couldn't catch her as my ds wouldn't let go of my leg) and I had to run off the loo every hour to puke!!! Oh the joy.

Unfortunatly if they don't have enough adults then this is the only way they can do it. They can't tell children for whom it is their normal nursery day they can't go because then they have no child care.

At the nursery Ds attends anything that isn't on their normal day they have to be accompanied to attend.