To think Gove does not know what happens in a primary school

[enimmead]

So we've had:

All KS2 children to learn a foreign language (announced in Rose report 2009, abandoned by coalition but happens anyway - sort of)

All children to learn tables to 12 x 12 by age 9 (which most schools try to do anyway despite the fact some children still struggle - but schools do try to do this)

I think Gove just makes these announcements because they sound good without actually checking to see what schools actually do.

Interesting post on Michael Rosen's blog about poetry in schools (sorry, cannot link on phone).

It would seem that the DFE have taken little notice of a renowned children's poet with decades of experience of bringing poetry into the lives of children.

I was being ironic that time clam . But don't you think it was awful that a fully qualified primary school responsible for teaching the children mathematics got the axes mixed up? It was on a handout.

Appalling, yes. But I'm afraid I see it all the time - makes me feel old. Often have to grapple with self as to whether to mention it or not.

I learnt French at primary school. There was one french teacher that taught the whole school, and that was her only subject. It just requires one extra member of staff and the pupils are taught by a specialist, so its not unreasonable.

Kids should be learning Chinese, not French.

IHaveAFeatureWall what other member of staff do you propose sacking to fund this "just ...one extra member of staff"? because you can bet your sweet ass Gove isn't putting his hand in his pocket to fund it!

I will be honest and say that as far as maths and English go, the expectations for children under the current NC is low compared to the things we were routinely being taught in primary school when I was a pupil in the 1970s.

I certainly remember having mastered times tables by age 8 or 9, and in fact we were doing sums in base 8 or binary or other bases, to make us think about the numbers we were using, so not only did we have rapid recall of tables we understood what we were meant to recall as well. My English was definitely further along than either of my DCs today at the same age.

And this was a bog standard state primary school. Nothing special at all.

Absolutely Darts, I don't think many any of us are saying that things don't need to be improved, or pretending that there hasn't been a slip in standards.

Problem is Gove has no idea what things need changing, or in what order. He also has no idea how much said changes will cost or how they will be implemented. He is also championing the type of schools who will never be bound by his changes anyway.

He is indeed at best disingenuous and at worst a dangerous, slimy, idiot. No scratch that, he is much much worse than that.

This dickhead is messing with the nations children with no regard for the consequence.

Dartsagain I have to disagree with that. In the 1960s my primary went all free learning. I was OK but I think there were far higher numbers of children who weren't than there are today. Even dd's state secondary was impressive academically and the staff were fab - we moved her because of the failure to deal with behaviour and the levels of disruption not because of the quality of the teaching. Haven't quite worked out if that was because the local authority bound the hands of the school or because the head made a lot of excuses for girls who she believed to be lacking support.

Chris Keates, the general secretary of NASUWT, wrote a scathing diss of his newest ideas yesterday.

In particular, his 'new' idea of teaching poetry to children! As if! I mean, how could something like poetry every make it into the National Curriculum, Literacy strategy or national framework?! Bah!

Inertia I read Michael Rosen's tweets but not sure I get him. Is he pro or anti Gove? He seems to hate everything...

clam

They are practising times table.

Tables practise is the action they are doing when they are doing their tables.

Verb or noun?

learn poems by heart.

great.

how can one man be allowed so much power over the education of the nation's children?

Juniper - in the blog post, he seems to suggest that Gove and his sideicks have refused to incorporate suggestions from relevant professionals into policy as they don't want to dictate to schools - then gone ahead and dictated anyway, without taking into consideration any viewpoints from the professionals.

It is a constant round of announcements from Government. I have lost count of how many this year. I have no idea what's happening with A-levels, GCSES, maths after 16 (is it continuing?), are children supposed to be standing up when a teacher or adult comes in?, is OFSTED going to come with no notice or not, are we supposed to all be above average (?), are we supposed to show progress every lesson or to recap?

Actually - think I'm wrong.
Tables practice

Ooops - long day
Apologies, Clam

I don't understand the Gove hatred on MN. My teacher friends in RL certainly don't hate him this much. He has said some sensible things. Learning to recite poetry and times tables? Yes, sounds about right - that's what i did at primary school. Teaching kids how to use the apostrophe? Yes, please.

This is unnerving reading for a parent who's pfb will start primary in Sept.

I agree with the pp who questionned how he one man can be allowed to dictate the education system? Our "democracy" baffles me sometimes...

Have a sticker, enimmead.

What annoys me about it all is that it's presented as though schools have never thought of teaching kids their times tables and basic grammar. What do they think we've been doing all these years. And if there ever has been a lapse, it's because we've been following guidance from previous governments and Ofsted.
We teachers do as we're told. Have to - otherwise we're graded "unsatisfactory" and ridiculed in league tables and the national and local press!

I'm surprised that there are any teachers out there who don't think Gove is a complete nob, I've certainly not met any.

The thing with Gove is that he thinks that the main issue affecting schools is that expectations are low and that if you raise expectations, suddenly everything will be tickety-boo. Teach everyone Latin and make them stand up for the teacher then literacy and behaviour problems will vanish. After all, that's what Gove did at school and he ended up Education Secretary so it must have a similar effect on everybody. Tell everyone that division by decimals must be taught and without further ado, everyone can now divide by decimals, even the ones who currently come to secondary school unable to divide by ten.

Also, there are an awful lot of kids at state schools these days who in his day simply weren't there. They were in special schools or borstals or just bunked off without fear of LA truancy figure clamp-downs. Now we have to deal with them all, and for some of them, the pathway of Latin and Classics, rote-learning and academia that he wants foisted on everyone simply isn't suitable.

Well said noble and clam.

I still want to know why we have to teach to 12 x 12?

What is so good about 12 x 12?

Once you've got 10 x 10, then the rest come easily - if you understand multiplication.

I also think it's really important this continues to secondary - I know too many teenagers who do not practise ( :) ) them regularly.

A 8 yo child in my class came up with a great way of memorising which one was which: y stands for yo-yo, which goes up and down vertically! Brilliant!

Excellent, clam, thanks - consider that pinched

On the subject of misused apostrophes, my Y5 class has a secret society which collects examples of poor, abused apostrophes for a display. The current worst offender is a photo from Sainsbury's, in letters about a foot high in the clothes section which says CHILDRENS'.

Various groceries come in multiples of 12, e.g. eggs & bottled water.

Bottled water

My eggs come in 6s.