To think that if you can't remember to take your 8 year old home from the pub then you can't be trusted to run the country?

[PrettyPrinceofParties]

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jun/11/david-cameron-daughter-behind-pub?newsfeed=true

She is a kidnap risk but that is what the protection officers are there for. It isn't Cameron's job to be anything but her parent. If he didn't have protection officers then of course he would have to be more vigilent but he should be able to rely on them to do their job or else what is the point of having them?

But you are right. We will have to agree to disagree.

Oh cross post with your cross post.

Its just a wonder he didnt blame Labour.

Um! I believe Smiley face: the David & Sam Cameron strategically agreed to "forget their daughter" as a smokescreen :( AFTER ALL, this week, David is in front of the Press Court and there is probably something nastier than we already know, to come out ...

There is NO WAY the Pm's daughter would be left behind ... THIS is more of Davids BIG THEMES like the PASTIE bought in Leeds - or was it Blackpool ... or Birmingham ... His PR dept must be rolling OFL and PIP

The buck stops with the parents and I'm sure they either know that or know how bad it would look for them to publicly blame the security detail.

And the buck stops with the driver when it comes to seatbelts for all passengers, especially seatbelts for your own children. What sort of satisfaction would anyone get from seeing their child cut to pieces in a hospital if you hadn't made sure she had her seatbelt fastened? Would anyone really think 'well, she learned the hard way to put on her seatbelt..' And I think the principle that it was up to the security people to do a count would be cold comfort to the Camerons if anything had happened to Nancy.

Who said anything about learning the hard way about putting on a seat belt. Really you would check an 8 year old would put one on? I remember my dyspraxic DS1 going on a school trip at 5 and being told off for not being able to do up his seat belt. All the other children had managed it and the teacher seemed to forget why he couldn't - if your average child can do it at 5 (although I still checked back then) why would you not expect the average 8 year old to do it automatically? My children shout at me if their seat belts aren't on and I have merely started the engine of the car on the drive. They know to put them on and I trust them because not to seem odd to me. I do listen for the click most of the time but they aren't stupid - so do they! If it doesn't click they know they haven't got it in properly. Really the seat belt thing is a total red herring in this especially as they both clearly thought the other parent had the child. You wouldn't check a seat belt of a child that wasn't with you and who you thought was with the other parent!

The buck does indeed stop with the parents but everybody makes mistakes and as it happens the Camerons, because of who they are, had people who were paid to make sure that as parents and not security experts they didn't make mistakes that put their lives or those of their children at risk. They would have been fully justified in tearing a strip off those officers imo.

I was responding to Seeker's posts:

'And actually, I don't think I would check a 8 year old's seatbelt anyway.
and
'No- the parents shouldn't have checked with each other- the child was 8, not 4!'

and suggesting that someone who didn't check seatbelts were on or do a headcount might regret it afterwards. It takes so little time and effort and it has the potential to make such a huge difference, I see no reason to stand on principle and not do it, because of the age of a child, for instance, or because a child should know better, etc.

If I were an officer getting a strip torn off me for not counting someone else's children, when my remit was not to herd the children but to guard the parent, then I would feel that I was being made to suffer for someone else's lapse as a parent. I sincerely hope the Camerons have accepted full responsibility for this themselves. (There is nothing to suggest they haven't).

I thought, legally, the buck stopped with the driver for seatbelts, no matter what the age of the passengers? Seriously, I thought if a passenger was not wearing a seatbelt it was the driver who got fined? That is certainly what I remember of when the law came in in the 1980s - that was part of the campaign.... ( it might be diff for front and back seat, which laws came in at diff times)

As a driver, I always check that everyone is ready (ie belted) before I set off - esp if I'm giving a lift to other peoples children....

Under 14's are responsibility of the driver for seatbelts but mostly people just check by a verbal reminder that's all your not seriously suggesting that the driver should be belting every passenger up, my kids once they got to 4/5 ususlly put their own seatbelts on except youngest she was still in a carseat as tiny.

I say "everybody strapped in?"

But it wouldn't have helped in this case, because both parents though that the child was in a different car.