To let your offspring have access to pirated material?

[Tak3n]

On Friday I had a text from one of my friends saying how their kids teacher had come to school with a pirated copy of Avengers in for the kids to watch on the last day of term.. (they were 14 years old)

Which got me thinking; do you now think Piracy is so "the norm" that by not letting your kids see the films early etc etc that you are almost excluding them from school ground talk..

I know I have to put my hands up and say I always get my 4 year old the latest films for kids, but obviously he does not understand where they come from, and I am not sure when he is old enough if I should stop and explain to him how things work properly.. i.e cinema/rental or if it is now the way of the world to watch pirated material.

Really? You know him do you?! Gosh well that makes two of us. And if you did, you would realise that your point is redundant.

I have no idea what you're going on about... you can't make the point that your boss is "independent", but simultaneously representative of the entire visual media industry. It's nonsensical.

whitewidow Gosh that is a really strong point! I have heard other people's music and literally gone to iTunes and downloaded the album immediately. So very true. Nice one!

I have no idea what you're going on about... you can't make the point that your boss is "independent", but simultaneously representative of the entire visual media industry. It's nonsensical

Independently wealthy - not independent as in film making. 'visual media industry' That is exactly what he calls it....not! What is with that? I am not going to tell you the name of who I work for. Not a chance. I will tell you that he is Jewish and is American. Open your brain love.

I can't imagine anyone who is that influential in the industry would emply someone who cannot string together a coherent thought from post to post in any position of influence.

Ha ha! You have chopped and changed in your attitude this whole thread. I can't imagine that someone who is clearly such a nasty and troll-like person would have children. Next?

And please do continue. I would LOVE to see these incoherent posts.

Where did I say I had children?
Good lord.

Good Lord indeed. Why on earth are you on MN then? That's a tad odd. And you implied that I was weird! Sorry but where did I say I was in a position of influence?

Why on earth are you on MN then?

Not that I need to justify myself to you, but I'm a teacher. I came to see what all the fuss was about.

where did I say I was in a position of influence?

You implied it when you stated that you were privy to the inner workings of the entire entertainment industry.

Ok - complete turnaround on piracy - have just seen the most appalling film damn you, file sharing site!

Being privy to the inner workings of the entire entertainment industry does not mean that I am influential.

And you are a 'teacher'? Says it all really. You folk really do leave school, go to college, then back to school. Hence the reason for your need to use highfalutin language.

mumtoone123 Ha! I know the feeling!

The fundamental problem is that the Internet has brought with it a revolution in the way we can access media. A revolution which the old movie/music companies didn't want and have been too slow to react.

What disturbs me are the lengths they are going to, in order to cling onto their old markets. Take the recent SOPA legislation which were thankfully shelved in the US and the parallel European ACTA laws which have (also thankfully) been watered down.

The prices at the cinema now are enough to make a grown man cry. By the time you've added on popcorn & a drink each, you need a small mortgage just to go to the cinema.

I'd love a system where I could watch high quality movies for a couple of quid rather than be forced to pay £15 for the movie months after it's out in the cinema. For a film I'll more than likely watch once.

Also, adverts. Seriously! Too many...too long. Especially if you live in America where you get 6 ad breaks in a 40 min programme.

Like it or not, the media companies will have to unitise their products. We've seen it already with iTunes and MP3's. Gone are the days where I had no choice but to pay £14 for a CD containing couple of tracks I wanted and the others being crud.

TV/movies will have to use a similar model and also the trend to use product placements more will continue.

The sooner they realise they've no choice, the better. Until then people will continue to download and watch stuff for free instead and not care about the law.

niceguy2 I watch a lot of US TV and I totally agree. It ruins the 'experience' that the studios and cinemas like to purport.

You are being extremely unreasonable. It is stealing. Do you shoplift your DCs clothes?

Absolutely no excuse for this.

I am shocked that any decent person thinks this is ok.

Margerykemp I think you are coming in on the tail end of a debate....

This topic really interests me, and I definitely don't think it's a subject that can have black or white thinking.

I've just illegally downloaded about 200 ebooks. But these are all books that I have on my bookshelf already. Although a few of these I bought from charity shops for a fraction of the amazon price. If I couldn't have freely downloaded these ebooks I wouldn't use my kindle. Is this situation morally wrong?

I've illegally downloaded octonauts series 1 for my dcs. They've already seen every single episode on free to air (no ads) tv. Downloading this program hasn't prevented me from buying it commercially, I just wouldn't have bothered. Is this morally wrong?

I've illegally downloaded Sherlock series 2 because I missed two of the episodes (was away and the pvr borked) and I don't like watching stuff on the pc. Is this morally wrong?

I've had to spend £80 on legally downloading ebooks that I already own and have hard copies on my shelf, however I want to read them in a format that is convenient to me, and conforms to the latest technology. Is this morally wrong?

It's 4.30pm here at work and as much as I have enjoyed this debate I am going home! My boss is out of town so it has been an easy weekend. For once....grrrrr! I need a holiday!

I've illegally downloaded Sherlock series 2 because I missed two of the episodes (was away and the pvr borked) and I don't like watching stuff on the pc. Is this morally wrong?

Arana, I don't think so, but others would disagree. You've paid for the right to watch it via your TV licence. It doesn't take away any revenue from the makers of the programmes.

IVan

I have mixed feelings on this.

Same as D0oinMeCleanin I download legally where possible. (PC games, PSN, mp3 sites, etc) but the movie/TV industry is really behind on the technology. They could dramatically decrease the amount of piracy by taking the cues from other industries.

Services like Netflix and Lovefilm Online were long overdue, and still need work.

Plus, it is much more convenient to have access to digital/online versions of different media. Rather than needing a hard copy.

I remember years and years ago, there used to be a website where you could download free mp3's, the vast majority of music on that site was uploaded by the bands themselves. But when Napster got shut down the owners of this other site shut down as they were not able to guarantee that every bit of music uploaded was uploaded with the permission of the copyright owner. This was before streaming was a real possibility. Luckily with the advent of streaming it became easier to find new music without having to take a gamble on buying CD's. Why the movie/TV industry isn't taking advantage of this I do not know!

It is good to be able to sample something before buying. It means you are more likely to try something you wouldn't normally. It seems especially beneficial to smaller, independent producers who don't have the budgets to push their products.

I have, in the past, downloaded things I wasn't 100% sure I'd like, and then gone on to buy them. If I hadn't downloaded them I definitely wouldn't have bought them. This is also one of the problems with the figures put out about how much is lost through piracy. It assumes that every download is a lost sale. When they can't guarantee that. It definitely doesn't take into account the fact that in some situations a download can gain them a sale that they wouldn't have had otherwise.

One last thing, it really isn't theft. To steal something you have to remove it. Copying isn't stealing. This isn't to say that it is right or legal though.

Copyright theft is a totally wrong description, as that implies that you are taking it's copyright. Which you aren't. The closest you could come to stealing copyright is to claim something is created by you, and profit from it.

I was an illustrator before I had the boys and the way copyright worked for artwork was that the artist retained the physical work ( the drawing or whatever ) and the magazine owned the reproduction rights to the drawing.

In practise the way this worked out was that if someone reproduced the drawing to make a profit for themselves they were liable to prosecution but if they were just doing it for their own entertainment then they were OK.

I worked for various biker magazines so people did use our illustrations as tattoos, tank art and so on and although they generally asked no-one minded as there was no profit involved.

This influences the way I see the issue as when I was a creator I didn't mind my stuff being used by people for their own enjoyment ( it used to give me a bit of a thrill to see one of my designs on someones arm or jacket, to be honest ) but I wouldn't have been at all happy about someone actually SELLING my work without me getting a cut!

For me the Internet has given me a way of finally watching TV how I want, when I want.

No longer do I have to wait in at a particular time, I don't have to go to the loo/make a cuppa during an ad break or suffer through them.

I can sometimes even get the latest films way quicker than I could get to the cinema.

The industry really needs to go with the flow and stop trying to criminalise millions/billions of people.

Netflix & Lovefilm are the future, the only thing really stopping them from mass adoption really are the studios who are busy protecting their DVD & cinema revenues.

But just think for a moment. Instead of trying to wait months before putting the film onto Blu-ray which incidentally most people really aren't fussed about. Instead of trying to charge me £15+ for one film. Just think of how many sales they'd get if I could stream it from Netflix for say £2-£3.

I don't know about everyone else but I have a high net income yet we cannot justify a trip to the cinema more than once every few months. It's just not worth it. Especially when you factor in babysitters. But I'd totally pay a few quid to watch the latest blockbuster a couple of weeks or a month after it's release on my 50" plasma with surround sound.

There is programs now here that use "streaming" which circumvents the law..

So if you used one of these, Navi-X is one, and you simply stream all the latest movies, YOU are not then breaking the law... as you are not downloading it, a bit like watching live TV

Does that make it allright?

Lots of comments on this thread seem to be based around the fact that it doesn't count as stealing if the original object is still there.

If you illegaly download something, yes, it had to be there in the first place for it to be copied, but you are denying revenue from the person you would have otherwise had to buy it from. Someone made the film/music/whatever at a cost, and you are getting it for free. You want the products of the industry but don't want to support the industry.

And if you say that you wouldn't have bought it from the shop, well then, you didn't really need it, did you?

If you disagree with the law, petition to change it. But don't kid yourself it's not stealing because depriving someone of money that is LEGALLY theirs is stealing.

And I so love the attitude of 'It's either watch it pirated or don't watch it at all'. Or wait for the DVD or, shock horror, if you are really skint, wait for it to come to TV. If you can't afford a jacket that you really want, do you nick it or wait for the sale? Sometimes I really want things and I just have to not have them, and I don't see why this is any different.

This attitude of 'me me me, now now now' is crap.

YABU.