... to challenge road users who drive badly

[Bennifer]

I cycle a lot around the town I live in.

On the way to work today, I come up to a junction and want to turn left. There's a car in the advance box, not signalling, so I pull to the side of the car. As the lights change, I go off, and the driver starts signalling to go left. By being over the line, and not indicating, she's causing a hazard. The driver overtakes me, and we meet at the next junction, again, they're past the line, not indicating. This time I hang behind them, thinking they may turn left. Lo and behold, as the light changes, they go to turn left.

I was sorely tempted to cycle on, tap on their window and explain how badly she was driving, but I thought better off it. As I cyclist, you're "outside" in a way that drivers aren't. Would I have been unreasonable to have explained to her the way she drove put people at risk.

PS: The point isn't to be a car v. cyclist thread, it's just that cyclists being outside are often freer to speak to other motorists.

combination of poor road quality/pot holes/cars too close and laziness!
Where I cycle (I do it all - cycle/drive/walk) we have cycle lanes - brilliant! Except they are so full of drains, pot holes etc they almost made cycling more dangerous.

No you should look behind you, and move across early, preferably when there's no following car. Indicating is something of a last resort for a right-turning cyclist, a defensive mechanism against being run down by a following car.

Cars just block the lane, they can pull up and stop at the kerb to let people out, slow down, do whatever they like, and they have very little personal safety reason (on the sort of roads most cyclists use) to indicate.

Cycle lanes are not there for the benefit of cyclists. They are there to allow motorists to pass cyclists closer than they otherwise would.

"OP - could she see you?"

she would have seen the OP as she overtook her so should have remained aware and used her left hand mirror and checked her blindspot before pulling off.

She would have learned this while doing her driving lessons.

The thing is though cyclists can and do use that reason for everything - I can't indicate/cycle on the road/wait at traffic lights/wait my turn in traffic etc etc etc because it's TOO DANGEROUS.

Really if you feel like that you should stop cycling.

Pan In your mind that's how it is, but to a car driver who isn't psychic the move will be sudden.

Like the mother I was following the other day.

There wasn't room to overtake and she was driving in the middle of my side of the road to protect her daughter who was cycling ahead of her slightly, so I kept well back and just pootled behind them.

Without turning her head to look or indicating she just swung across in front to turn right.

If I'd chosen that moment to try to overtake she'd be dead.

Fanjo, I know - I always check my left mirror but if cyclists hang back they can be hard to see. That's all I was saying.

The thing is though cyclists can and do use that reason for everything - I can't indicate/cycle on the road/wait at traffic lights/wait my turn in traffic etc etc etc because it's TOO DANGEROUS.

Really if you feel like that you should stop cycling.

Why?

Motorists don't obey the rules, speeding, overtaking, red light running, etc. They don't feel any need to justify themselves. Why should cyclists?

ermm..no, cock - Are you following me on my commutes? - drivers don't have to be psychic - just have the basic powers of eyesight and observation. You know, the same ones thay have when they negotiate themselves in evey other movement of life!

"Lots of bad cyclists too, but the risk is not the same."
Of course a person can be killed if hit by a bicycle.
Babies, toddlers, elderly & infirm are especially vulnerable but anyone can be killed if hit by a bike - at least 60% of cyclists where I live (central London) don't seem to care at all.

They've been cracking down on drivers being in the ASL around here. Instant fine and possibly points on license. ( think its £60 and 3 points )
They also caught a few cyclists going through the lights too.

citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6253

I think many drivers dont understand the ASL box (when its there ). They dont understand they are NOT supposed to enter it when stopping at lights

The car driver is totally in the wrong for entering the ASL box whilst stopped at lights and wrong again for not signalling.

I must have missed the psycic driving lessons

yeah the red light thing and drivers fuming about it always makes me giggle inside a bit.

I love the way you discount my incident pan

Why do you firmly believe I would know that cyclists are about the cut across the front of my car? That I won't move to go around them just at the point they decide to go? Seriously, this happens every fucking day to me on my way home from work.

Cyclists should bloody indicate.

For a start motorists can and do get tickets/fines etc for running red lights/speeding etc. Cars are identifiable and the divers must carry licences. Cyclists are largely anonymous.

But is it really useful to justify shit and dangerous cycling by whining "but the cars are worse"??? Seriously?

Without turning her head to look or indicating she just swung across in front to turn right.

If I'd chosen that moment to try to overtake she'd be dead.

And you'd be done for death by careless driving.

www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070314

DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example:
approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road

Jareth, she could see me, and although her driving wasn't the worst ever, she's quite possibly one of those drivers who see themselves as a safe driving, even though she was consistently failing to indicate and going past the stop line. I wouldn't have railed at her, but would have been quite calm

Hmm Poulay could that be the reason I DIDN'T OVERTAKE? Could that be the reason I kept my distance and in my own words, 'pootled along' behind her?

And what's it got to do with her poor use of the road?

"67

You should

look all around before moving away from the kerb, turning or manoeuvring, to make sure it is safe to do so. <strong>Give a clear signal to show other road users what you intend to do</strong> (see 'Signals to other road users')"

from here

www.direct.gov.uk/en/travelandtransport/highwaycode/dg_069837

The thing is though cyclists can and do use that reason for everything - I can't indicate/cycle on the road/wait at traffic lights/wait my turn in traffic etc etc etc because it's TOO DANGEROUS.

Really if you feel like that you should stop cycling.

Why?

Motorists don't obey the rules, speeding, overtaking, red light running, etc. They don't feel any need to justify themselves. Why should cyclists?

Because you are a lot more vulnerable on a bike than in a car for starters. I cycle a fair bit. Unless the road is completely clear in BOTH directions, I indicate. Even if it is slow, potholed, wet, whatever. When moving to the center, yes you should look, move over early, etc. but you still need to indicate! It's rather startling for the car coming onwards to see you moving across without showing intention. And if you indicate and hol the correct position, drivers are usually a lot easier to get along with too!

I def wouldn't confront a driver whilst cycling though.

"Lots of bad cyclists too, but the risk is not the same."
Of course a person can be killed if hit by a bicycle.

A person can be killed by a jogger, a large dog. Many things.

Doesn't mean they are equivalent to a 3 tonne 4x4 however.

For a start motorists can and do get tickets/fines etc for running red lights/speeding etc. Cars are identifiable and the divers must carry licences. Cyclists are largely anonymous.

Well in London they are issuing fines for running red lights and cycling on the pavement to cyclists, and in ever-increasing numbers.

But is it really useful to justify shit and dangerous cycling by whining "but the cars are worse"??? Seriously?

You what? The OP said she wanted to challenge a dangerous road user.

Ok.

So why do we then get subjected to pages of random 'cyclists do terrible things' posts?

Experienced cyclists offer their experience about cycling and we are then told that we shouldn't be on the road because we are breaking the rules. (Which rules we are breaking, I'm not entirely clear on.)

The rules about indicating, possibly?

Cockwomble you rightly observed that she should make her intentions clear, and I replied pointing out that you should not overtake in that position.

Simple enough, no?

Not at all. I'm saying if you are not confident enough to be able to cycle safely (safely for everyone that is - the cyclist as well as pedestrians and other road users) then get off the road.

If you are not confident enough to be able to execute the the basics like indicate, stop at red lights & pedestrian crossings then you really shouldn't be on the road.

As a cyclist, surely your first priority should be to remember how vulnerable you are! You need to be defensive about those who don't obey them, not see it as an opportunity to assert yourself.

You have no more hope of correcting someone's bad driving than a pedestrian does.

Cock - Ididn't know you had an 'incident' for me to discount! I must have joined the thread after your posting - I was simply referring to the fact that I don't 'swing out suddenly' on my commutes - I like living too much.

sorry for the misunderstandings.

The rules about indicating, possibly?

I've explained that I would not indicate when turning left in some situations because I might get cut up.

Since my speed would not change when turning, there's no possible risk/distress to the following motor vehicles, and there's only positive intent/effect as a result.

There's no law that cyclists must signal, there are laws about speed limits (not for cyclists though), red lights, etc., so what's the big deal?