To think I have the answer to P&C spaces?

[curiousgeorgie]

Sometimes it is completely necessary to need wider spaces when you have children.

When I had DD and a three door car and had to get a carseat out of the back I had to open the front door all the way in order to get her out, and when P&C spaces were all full (not always with p&c's as we've so often heard! ) and the car park was really busy it would be a nightmare.

Whatever people think of them, they are useful for getting prams and children out safety.

I think they should be placed at the very furthest part of the car park. Then childless people would stop using them and people who legitimately needed them could just use the wider space, and walk / use a lift etc to the shops.

Who can I write to about this! :)

Well.... They have to walk anyway. So better a space they can actually use than a space they'd struggle with an walking anyway iykwim.

Well, I hate people getting up in arms about spaces, I really do.

BUT

There are always people saying how they managed fine in normal spaces 20 years ago when their dcs were small. great, I'm sure they did but it is a fact that cars have got several inches wider since then but standard parking spaces have not so actually it can be nigh on impossible to get your child in and out of the car easily when parked in a standard space.

That is the problem really, that spaces have not kept up with car sizes. It isn't just people buying huge 4*4s either, perfectly normal cars like a Ford Focus have got considerably wider.

Anyway, do get back to the usual "I need space to have the buggy down the side of the car why don't you just put it at the back my child might get run over I can't possibly control the child through the carpark I need to be by the doors but they are too far fro the trolley bay I can't leave the baby in the car while I take the trolley back bunfight".

Come on! I know people get worked up about this subject being petty, but the OP is only trying to suggest an alternative solution. Shops want to encourage parents by offering the service of P&C spaces. They make a fortune out of parents with babies and toddlers. I think the suggestion is a good one in that it means people are not getting the best spaces near to the stores by virtue of having reproduced, but have the benefit of wider spaces for cars.

I have 3 children and fitting 3 car seats across the back seat of my car was pretty impossible - and then I couldn't fit anything into the tiny boot. When I was a child and one of three we didn't have these bulky car seats to contend with, so three of us in Mum's small car was fine. I have had to buy a bigger (wider) car to accommodate my 3.

It is nearly impossible to open the doors on both sides side enough to fish the 2 yr old and baby in their seats out in a normal parking bay.

OP - I think it's a sensible solution. You're not moaning about the wrong people using them, or feeling entitled to have them - as I see it, you are simply suggesting that if shops choose to have them, it would make sense to have them where they won't inconvenience other people.

Aw rats I was beaten to it in a huge crossed posts caused by my stopping to talk about stickers with ds1.

"So you think people should walk across a busy car park with their children in tow? Right...."

Really? People with children shouldn't have to walk across busy carparks? What about roads? Should they be exept from crossing roads?

I seriously don't get why this is an issue. People with children don't suddenly become incompetent idiots. They just figure out how to do things safely.

Like cross carparks.

Also, if I didn't have children I think I would be in favour of wider spaces for children - I don't want my car bumped and scraped by people trying to open their doors and fish babies out.

'So you think people should walk across a busy car park with their children in tow? Right....'

No I don't. I think they should leave their children in the car and make supermarkets child free places. Better for everyone.

Has anyone talked about 'juggling' kids yet?
I love it when that comes up on a thread.

'Have YOU ever tried to get across a busy car park in the rain whilst juggling a newborn and a toddler, well HAVE YOU?'

Umm no. But only because I find a trolley or a buggy is a much simpler method of transporting children.

curiousgeorgie, I think FolkGirl is on your side though probably not anymore.

I just loathe the culture of helplessness that seems to be growing up around parenthood. Yes, things are sometimes a bit more difficult with children.

But "a bit more difficult" does not equal "really, really difficult" or "darn near impossible". There are always solutions to any practical issue, disabilities aside.

I've heard friends saying "oh I can't go there as we couldn't manage with the buggy" or "I really couldn't manage that because of [insert child/buggy/parking related problem]"

9 times out of 10 the problem won't turn out to be insurmountable, or someone will help you, or you will manage with a bit of rejigging. I have only twice in 3 years of parenthood been unable to get a car door open wide enough to get a child in. I park in quiet corners, beside pillars or walls, or leave myself less room on my own side of the car. On both occasions, someone had parked insanely close on both sides in very large cars and presumably climbed out the passenger side. On the first occasion I asked someone to hold DS1 for me while I backed out. On the second I asked for a tannoy to get the car moved. Every other time I have had someone park close I have still managed to get the children in the car. It has been with a bit of muttering and cursing but it has been possible.

Yes, P&C spaces, lovely idea, very nice to have that extra space. But it isn't something parents need. That is why so many people say "well I managed 20 years ago" on these sort of threads.

I do hope that all the parents who are bitching and AGAINST PROVIDING parent and child parking spaces ARE NOT USING them, seeing as apparently 'we don't actually need them' and are 'making a fuss over nothing'. Because if the anti brigade do use them they would be hypocrites.

I've been saying this for ages, couldn't give a shit how close to the shops they are-it's the size of them that's good. I have a 5 door & struggle to get the car seat out of the back if I park in an ordinary space-partly because is a wide car & partly because some twats just can't park.

I don't think anyone is actually against these spaces as such. Personally, I just dislike the idea that parents, or let's face it, mothers, because that is who the supermarkets are targetting with this marketing ploy, are so helpless that we can't manage without them.

I don't understand why anyone gives headspace to the idea that they can't get round a minor problem, let alone considers actually writing letters to ensure better access to p&c spaces.

And no, I don't use supermarket p&c spaces. I have no idea where they actually are in our local supermarket. Clearly nowhere near the entrance or I would have seen them on my way from my nice quiet spot near the trolley park at the far end of the aisle. I did, however, park in a p&c space in Homebase today. They are situated fairly randomly in a sort-of overflow carpark round the side and completely unnused. So I used one.

I do of course mean other twats can't park, not myself-my parking is quite good average

I did see a fairly entertaining child/parking related row today. We went to a big rural show where the parking is strictly organised by arm-waving men in yellow jackets. One intrepid lady ignored the arm-waving and zipped off straight towards the entrance with yellow-clad man in hot pursuit. By the time I got out of the car and walked over to the entrance she was having a right set-to about not being allowed to park in the disabled aisle because apparently her pram would never make it across the uneven ground. The words "well what do you expect me to do?" were uttered. The man just turned and looked pointedly at the dozen or so buggies quite happily trundling across the field. She then had to get back in the car and drive all the way back, by which time another few aisles had filled up so she was actually further away.

The funniest thing was the older lady, presumably her mother, who was sitting in the car looking absolutely mortified. you could practically see the speech bubble floating above her head saying "this never happened in my day..."

The problem, as I see it, is that car park spaces were designed to go with the smaller sized cars that existed in the 60's, 70's etc. There weren't p&c spaces then because no-one needed them - they could open their doors and get children in and out of cars quite easily. A lot of us now have big family-sized cars and they don't fit so well in ordinary spaces. P&C spaces do have their uses but aren't absolutely vital.

My solution is to park at the far side of the car park, away from most other cars, and usually no-one parks next to me so we can get in and out quite easily. I tend to avoid the p&c spaces at our local supermarket because they are in a difficult to get to row.

I drive a v small car. Every space to me is as wide as a p&c space

Buy a Morris Minor!

Good for you Valiumredhead that you have a big enough car to keep your buggy in the boot. I have a very small car and the carrycot attachment will only fit on the back seat

A VW Golf - hardly big

I've written that very same thing OP, and had it published in most of the women's weekly magazines. This has been over the course of the last 8 years. I've also written to all of the major supermarkets HQs to no avail.

I don't get het up with it all anymore - it's not worth the stress

I have a clio.
No issues with buggies here either. Even my old silver cross pram fitted in the boot.

Honestly, hand on heart, I have never, ever, every had to abandon my shopping trip for lack of a P&C space.

Lack of disabled space though.....