to think this is just not on? (schools, religion and bribery!)

[EXmrsmascarahead]

my son has come home from school today, they held a Jubilee party and all the children got to join in the celebrations, all well and good.

He has just handed over a book to me, 'New testament, to celebrate the queen's diamond jubilee 2012'. Not a lot wrong with that, I suppose, but he has also told me that in order to get the children to take a copy they have been using bribery, 'you can have a cake only if you take a book'.

none of this sits right with me, I know the queen is head of the church of england but not all the children this is handed out to are CofE, religious or celebrating the jubilee. And in order for them to get the children to take the book they have to bribe them. AIBU?

Sorry that was meant to read "So do you..."

Cassettetapeandpencil -

It is not necessarily rude or ignorant to say something that would be considered by followers of some religions to be offensive.

People may think that Mohammed was a tyrant and a pervert, that Jesus was deluded or that Buddha could have done with cutting back on the carbs the Buddhist concept of reincarnation props up inequality and injustice. Others would say this is offensive, but it is not necessarily ignorant (rudeness depends on the context)

People don't 'deserve love and respect' equally (it would be pretty meaningless). They deserve basic respect for their human rights.

What I feel about here is not that handing out bibles will convert or offend anyone, but that it is all part driving home the general message you get at school from 5 to 18 that religion should get a special kind of respect.

They are not just giving out bibles but presumably expecting for them to be treated with respect. Children who draw on, make paper aeroplanes with or eat cake off their bibles would presumably be told off for being naughty.

How would you feel if every school child in Britain received a copy of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins?

I'm a borderline atheist and I would be pissed off if my child was given The God Delusion. While I think Dawkins' other work is very good (I particularly enjoyed The Selfish Gene) I think TheGod Delusion is nothing but a rant in which he comes across as much of a zealot as those he criticises and his arguments often lack balance.

The bible contains a lot of good stories if taken at face value, the book itself does not have an authoritative voice as it was written and re-written by many authors over hundreds of years - it is those people who represent the church that state what should and shouldn't be believed and their interpretations vary wildly - they can be ignored and the bible taken to be a bunch of fairy tales should one wish.

However, the God Delusion cannot be viewed simply as a story and pushes quite forcefully the views of one man.

I would prefer my child to be given a bible and I would explain that it is a story book, no different to any of her other books, if a little more droll.

Children who draw on, make paper aeroplanes with or eat cake off their bibles would presumably be told off for being naughty.

Children who draw on, make paper aeroplanes or eat cake off any book should be told off for being naughty. Books should be treated with respect.

How would you feel if every school child in Britain received a copy of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins? (and had to take it in order to get cake)

I don't think I would be that bothered. My son knows that lots of people have different beliefs. I would be very surprised if my son actually read it.

I feel that forcing a bible on a child is wrong. Especially as Britian is a multicutral society. I don't think I would mind if my son was offered a copy of the koran, Torah, Sri Guru Granth Sahib and I took it. I would mind if it was forced.

The bible (in particular) the king James Bible does underpin our culture, our justice system even for those who do not believe.

I should have said leave religion AND atheism out of schools.
Leave the brainwashing to the parents and the churches.
Schools should open minds, not close them to a particular set of beliefs.
Nothing to do with any religion can be proven and it shouldn't be taught as fact until it is.

How would you feel if every school child in Britain received a copy of The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins? As a Christian, I would explain to the children that different people believe different things and that that is their right. If they wanted to read the book, and discuss it they could. And if they did read it I would also offer to buy them the 'opposing' book, which is called something like 'Why God almost certainly does exist' and again we would discuss the views in this book!

We didn't get bibles and my children DO go to a CofE school

ClaireDeTamble - seriously? Someone earlier said don't get your knickers in a twist, if you don't want it use it for firelighters.

Other people's books, school property etc... should be treated with respect. Your own books should be looked after if you want to keep them.

Unsolicited marketing material is junk mail. No body worries about treating junk mail with respect. Just because it is perfect bound with a cover doesn't make it any less junk mail.No body worries about treating the phone book or Mein Kampf with respect.

Cassettetapeandpencil - why is it 'ignorant'? If I draw a picture of Mohammed and this offends someone it doesn't mean that I am ignorant of their religious teaching that you shouldn't draw pictures of Mohammed, just that I choose not to follow it, because I am not a Muslim.

The Jubilee Bible is a modern version.

It is a topical gift as the Queen was given a copy 60 years ago. She was not given a book by Dawkins.

As a Christian I would be ok if my child was given a copy of the Koran or other faith book. It would be useful when we discuss religions, faith and belief.

I hope my children will be tolerant of others beliefs and this is only possible if they are aware of what others faith involves

Link to the page advertising these Bibles

starttheweek.typepad.com/stw/2012/04/diamond-jubilee-new-testament.html

When I was at school we all got given a Giddeons NT book iirr. Not even given cake to go with it. But I do remember all local schools having an assembly about it and getting the book on the way out.

Everyone just took it, regardless of religion. You don't have to read it just because it is given to you.

I wouldn't have a problem with my child being ::offered:: a bible in an English school, would do here and would make a song and dance about it.

I think the problem is more the bribery.

Oh and not talking about religion is not by default atheist. Atheist would be saying "there are no gods, gods do not exist". I'm guessing most religious people would be okay about not talking about God in school, but would not be okay about saying that gods don't exist and are made up by man.

The suggestion that a book should be used as a firelighter sits very uncomfortably with me - whether it be serious or tongue in cheek.

The will full destruction of a book because you do not agree with it's contents, particularly if that destruction is via burning, has very serious symbolic connotations.

If you don't want a book, give it away, send it to the charity shop or whatever. If you must throw it in the bin, but there is no need for the will full destruction of a book.

Books are extremely important. The written word is the only link we have to our past. The ability to document our history and our art is what sets us apart from other animals. You don't have to respect the views of others, but respect the fact that they cared enough to put pen to paper.

I don't think the God Delusion is a good book for kids either, but what about one written for kids? I picked one randomly out of an amazon list, I have no idea if it is any good but something like this...

www.amazon.com/Disbelief-101-Young-Persons-Atheism/dp/1884365477/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338497436&sr=1-2

Apparently it talks about how to deal with feeling that there is no god when you live in a family where that would be troublesome or forbidden. Would you be ok with your child being told that they couldn't have cake unless they took one of those (and presumedly some of them would start reading it before the parents knew about it?)

(I cut up a book to use as a halloween costume. MAny of the kids at the party enjoyed reading me)

I totally agree with you, Claire actually. It wasn't the cleverest suggestion; I was just flummoxed by the absolute mountain being made of this insignificant molehill.

ALL non-denominational schools are LEGALLY REQUIRED to include 'collective worship that is broadly Christian in nature" - Section 70 of the 1998 Education Act states that, subject to the parental right of excusal or other special arrangements, "?each pupil in attendance at a community, foundation or voluntary school shall on each school day take part in an act of collective worship.... wholly or mainly of a broadly Christian character".

"A "broadly Christian" act of worship must contain some elements which relate to the traditions of Christian belief and which accord a special status to Jesus Christ. (Circular 1/94, paragraph 63). Only on special occasions can the act of worship take place somewhere other than on the school premises, subject to the agreement of the head." - that's taken from the British Humanist's site explaining the legal position.

I imagine the Jubilee Bible thing falls somewhere under that.

If you don't like it, get on to the Humanist Association website and sign the petition in support of getting the collective worship requirement revoked.

Cassetteandpencil

"Draw a picture" you mean insult? No I mean draw a picture, as in a picture of mohammed - offensive to some but not ignorant.

Personally I don't say "Sky fairy" as it tends to derail discussions with people saying that is offensive.

I hate all this conflating of ignorance, lack of awareness, respect. Basically it means 'don't say anything at all critical of religion'

Ignorance = not knowing something.
Lack of awareness of respect - i understand to mean something like not knowing when it is ok to be dismissive of religion and when it is rude (I would say it is ok on MN but not if you go to someones Christening for example).

"You don't have to agree with soneones beliefs but to be rude about them is unacceptable in a tolerant and diverse culture." No it isn't. It is rude in some situations (i.e. at a christening, Hindu wedding, if you are an elected politician etc...) it is perfectly acceptable in other situations (if you are having a general discussion about the role of religion in society).

worra - judgy much? way to over analyse.
Just sounds like she was trying to make sure they took the book.

id take it back tomorrow and say no thankyou.

what does he think?

mine would probably like it actually so id have so swallow my grouchiness at making them take them.