To think that my dad's holiday is less important than him helping to stop my sister with severe MH problems stop from being evicted?

[FeministPixie]

My sister was sectioned on Friday of last week, (third time this year) they had to get a magistrate's order to get her out of her flat as she shuts herself away when she relapses into Schizophrenia. She doesn't let people in, goes off radar for weeks and seemingly has had issues paying her bills and rent (debt collectors ect) despite having money from the sale of her and her ExH's home. She does not let the community nurse in at all for her meds to be administered, misses her outpatient appointments and is generally in denial.

Today my mum has found out that my sister has an eviction order for the 8th of June, and my dad is going away this weekend for a concert in Brighton, and refuses to cancel or delay it it to help my mum sort it out because it will be a waste of money. (they are divorced and he was EA/DV). He thinks if she IS evicted the council will have to house her, but my mum reckons that if you are evicted for non-payment of rent that the council will not touch you with a ten foot barge pole.

I am unsure myself as to what is the case in this particular situation, there have been multiple failings in her care, yet he's just going to bugger off tomorrow when there is a long weekend ahead and therefore little time to
A- Get into her flat (we cannot find the keys, as the locks were changed and the multi agency approach is actually just a multi agency clusterfuck).
B- Check the tenancy agreement and the clauses. C- get hold of her landlord's phone number to explain why the locks have been changed and that it is not the case that my sister has simply not paid rent and changed the locks, it was done as part of the Magistrate's order that came with her sectioning.
D- get a letter from her health care team to explain where she is and hopefully halt the eviction.
E- find her financial details and get a letter of permission from her to pay her rent.

I just hung up on my dad who was looking for my mum and is going to leave my mum, who has arthritis, diabetes, under active thyroid and also has to organise care for my younger sister who has just moved into supported living because she had brain damage from meningitis 10 years ago.

I think he's being a selfish c*.

It would help hugely if you can talk to the landlord. Your sister needs to be 60 days in arrears to be formally evicted. Even if you pay a small amount can halt the eviction. You also need to explain WHY the locks have been changed as many tenancies forbid the tenant to change the locks.

I think it would help considerally if you explain to the landlord or his solitiors that your sister has been sectioned under the mental health act. He may well drop the court case required to evict, if you can come to some agreement on how he is going to be paid. Evicting someone is not cheap. If you cannot halt the eviction then it might be getting advice from shelter.

I think that your Dad sounds a bit of a waste of space.

Oh dear. You all have a lot on your plate right now.

However, before you do anything I think you need to get some advice.
Have you tried the CAB, the council or your local homeless charity? They will be able to give you some advice on what you should do.

I think that your dad may be right. If your sister is evicted then the council will have to find her some where to stay, but you need to get advice on that.

Does your sister have a Social Worker? Does anyone have power of attorney? If she has been sectioned then she will be ward of court and therefore the LA will be responsible for her affairs?

So sorry that you are all going through this just now. I'm sure there is help out there for you, it's just finding the right place.
Hopefully someone else will be along shortly and will be able to point you in the right direction.

I am not sure what the order is, as we cannot get access to the flat, my Mum has tried to contact the CAB with no luck as to getting an appontment, maybe I shall have to call mum and link her to the thread as I do not have all the details.

I'm currently depressed and stressed with my shared housing arrangement (verbally abusive housemate) and also finding it hard to cope with the situation, although with my knowledge of the benefits system and rented accommodation, once we get into the flat I can get my head around that quite easily.

The letting agents will not give the landlord's mobile number out as of yet, so we have no way at present to contact the landlord, which is why I have suggested that mum gets a letter from the ward she is on to show the letting agency.

I am operating on less than optimal information, I am afraid, and as my dad is the eldest relative he gets most of the calls from the MH team and Social Services. He will be back after the long weekend though, but tomorrow is of vital importance due to the timescale.

No one has power of attorney yet, she is under a Section 3, which is up to 6 months, although we are looking into it, as much as it makes me uncomfortable with taking her right to self-determine away she simply seems unable to handle her bills, rent and

No-one knows the code to get into the flat, or has the keys, or the landlord's number. The place is entirely unsuitable for her, it's like a fortress.

She is as stubborn as she is ill, which is half the issue, as well as being in denial.

I suspect that it is only a court appearance that is needed, as she is less than 2 months in arrears.

I however have little faith in the ability of the MH ans SS to pull their finger out of their arses and actually sort this humdinger out before a week Friday.

We are in Southampton.

I work for a homeless service in the South East and work closely with MH services in my current role. There is a lot of well meaning advice on here but not all of it is accurate.

I would advise you to call Shelter on 0808 800 4444 who can provide expert housing advice, you could also try Southhampton City Council's advice service on 023 8033 9206

If the paperwork you have about your sisters eviction is a possession order granted by the Court the landlord still can't evict her/get rid of her things but will have to get a bailiff's warrant and even then will have a duty of care to her belongings, Shelter will be able to advise more fully.

Your sister is unlikely to be found intentionally homeless (i.e. not helped into alternative accommodation by the council) as she sounds like she hasn't been capable of managing her own affairs. Worst case scenario though if houisng can't help your sister will be owed duties by social services. Again please call Shelter who can help in more detail and specifically for your sister.

Your dad sounds like a total twunt and you sound like a lovely sister and daughter.

If you need anything else please feel free to PM me.

I think if the problems with your sisters are happening frequently, and your Dad usually helps, then he should be allowed to go without judgement. This will be hard on all of you and you all need to support each other. That may include allowing your Dad to maintain his own interests away from all this, because if he never gets any time for thing she enjoys the he will end up ill as well.

Thing is, my mum is always the one who carries the lion's share when it all goes wrong, and Dad was a total Disney Dad when we were all younger.

Thanks for the tips, Emskaboo

typing is sore because I had my first ever Krav Maga lesson last night and the insides of my wrists are proper sore from all the blocking, so may just call Mum later, and link her into the discussion.

FP - your question AIBU to think that dad's holiday is less important than him helping to stop your sister being evicted.

YANBU to think this.

YABU to expect him to suddenly undergo a complete personality transplant and put someone else first, when he has never done it before.

You won't get anywhere with him, he's not interested in the tough stuff, only the goal swooping, back patting stuff.

You have to accept that your dad is not there, he never was and he never will be.

Don't waste valuable energy chasing him, spend it on yourself and helping your sister. What a FAB sister you sound, really. She's lucky to have someone that cares. ((HUG))

When this is over, pop on back and we'll help you sort out your flat mate, OK?

Thanks, MNetters.

If it was a problem Dad could throw money at, or lift or carry, it'd be sorted. He's not very bright, and totally pooped on my idea to do Youth Work and get a degree in it after a while, yesterday.

If it's emotional support and information gathering you need, then it's my mum who sorts that stuff.

Which is why I'm trying to help with information gathering, and in my areas of expertise.. Just texted my stepdad with those numbers, as Mum is probably bending someone's ear about it at one of her local community volunteer groups, and finding out who's arse she needs to kick to get some shit sorted ref this issue.

just a thought, but could MIND help? I am sure they would have experience of things like this happening to people with MH issues..

My dad used to be like that, until he retired and his pension wasn't as much as he thought it would be. Now we hardly hear from him.

My mum never 'did' emotional support, took me 40 years to work that one out, but she will do practical stuff and offer to pay for things.

You have to understand what these people are able to offer, it's hard to understand sometimes, but it's their choices, not yours.

My dad always said that he expected us to fail. The day I passed my test he told me that he had the 'Oh well never mind speech' ready. WTAF? Why not just say Well Done and keep your crappy expectations to yourself, thereby programming ME not to expect/demand much of myself/ my life?

It's SHIT FP, it really is, but try not to beat yourself up (sounds like you had enough of that already) focus on what's important, you, your mum, your sister.

Feminist Pixie (fab name btw) I hope you've managed to get some good clear advice and are feeling a bit clearer about what will happen next. You sound like you are handling a really difficult situation brilliantly (a damn sight better than I would). Take care.

Cinny Call, your advice was accurate, I was trying not to be too specific because I didn't want to offend anyone and inadvertently may have offended you, sorry! The only point I thought may be unclear was suspension of the warrant, if it is an AST there is little scope for suspension of an order (unless by agreement) or preventing an execution of a warrant unless there's been an error of law. Having said that though our local law centre have been having some success at doing both using the DDA recently so all things may be possible!

Firstly have you spoke to your sisters AMP (Approved Mental Health Practioner) it is another name for a SW.

I wouldn't jump tofar ahead with re-housing as she is a vulnerable adult and the LA has a duty to house her. There may be more suitable MH trusts/charities that can provide her with accommodation, on discharge.

She may be discharged on a Community Care Order, because her last (this) tenancy failed and she needs high levels of support.

You or your mother can be nominated,or nominate yourselves to the AMP as the person who is 'the most appropriate relative', to be contacted/manage your sisters care.

Your sister has been deemed to not have capacity over her affairs, or that is going through the process, as she is on a section 3, so you or your mother can takeover that side.

Tbh it makesit more simple if one or two close people are overseeing things, i would move away from asking your dad.

Just to add the eviction could be halted, if your sister has the means to clear the arrears and an the basis that she is a vulnerable adult.

It is whether you feel that it is worth it given the length of time that she will be in hospital for.

She will not be homeless on discharge.

Go to Southampton County Court tomorrow and lodge a stay/suspension of a warrant of possession. The court office opens at 10 and they can give you the form and you can fill it out.

It may buy you a little time, but from what you have said the property seems entirely unsuitable for her anyway.

Technically it sounds like she lacks consent and therefore needs a litigation friend so it may be worth also asking for the litigation friend form so you can fill that in too - that means that you can be her sort of representative at court (a bit like a parent to a child) as technically she would be considered a protected party.

The 2 months rent thing is only for Ground 8 (schedule 2 Housing Act 1988)rent arrears case - which is a mandatory order and means you would struggle to get a stay/suspension unless the money was paid in cash at the stay hearing.

You can be evicted for less than 2 months rent under Grounds 10 (rent arrears) and grounds 11 persistent late payment, but that requires the court to consider the reasonableness of making a possession order and as such a stay is much more likely if she has MH issues and the amount owing is low.

Are you sure she is being evicted for rent arrears or has the landlord just served a s21 Notice terminating an assured shorthold tenancy? It will be difficult to get a stay if it is the latter.

Just because she has rent arrears does not mean she would not be considered for rehousing. If her social workers/CHMT can confirm to the council that her inability to maintain the tenancy and pay the rent was because of her mental health, there is every chance she will not be considered intentionally homeless and her MH issues mean she should be considered in priority need. Further if she is incapable of sustaining a general needs (normal) tenancy, they may assist her in finding supported accommodation.

The Home Group (specifically Stonham housing) have quite a lot of supported housing stock in Southampton and have offices based there and her social work/CMHT may be able to get her a referral, especially if she loses stable accommodation whilst she is under section.

The District Judges at southampton are generally a good bunch and I expect you'll get some sympathy and hopefully buy her a little time.

HTH

Pixie, I'm a mental health social worker and an AMHP. Some of the information you've been given is a bit inaccurate.

For example an AMHP has basically a legal role and may only involved in the process of assessing people under the Mental Health Act but would not necessarily have ongoing responsibilities in terms of their care and treatment (unless the person is an allocated client of theirs).

In relation to capacity its not the case that just because someone is detained under the Mental Health Act that they lack capacity. Capacity is decision specific and may fluctuate according to the situation, particular decision and the timing of the decision for example.

I think your sisters Community Mental Health Team are the key agency in helping your sister and indeed your family in resolving the problems. I would contact your sisters care coordinator (it sounds like your sister has a CPN, Community Psychiatric Nurse) and explain all the issues regarding the eviction threat. They may be able to hold off any legal process by liaising with the relevant departments although this may be complicated if its a private landlord.
By the sounds of it your sister may not be found intentionally homeless as it seems that her mental illness has impacted on her ability to maintain a tenancy. It also may be that her ability to live independently would need to be further assessed by her care team.

Just to add that if you feel that your sisters CPN is not helpful then always try and speak to the team manager about these issues. I'm a deputy manager in a mental health team and the scenario you describe is not a unique one and one that I think your sisters care team are responsible for managing this assertively.

Best of luck

Oy, sister has refused to consent to me or mum looking into her financials and is blaming both Mum and Dad for sectioning her, and saying upsetting things to Mum. Mum is meeting with a Social Services lady tomorrow. I am tempted to go with Mum next time she visits and attempt to engage her logically.

Which with someone in the middle of a psychotic episode is like trying to herd cats. (I've had a lesser episode of psychosis myself once, but thankfully I trained myself to be very hard and empirical about my senses, and by the end of it could tell when my brain is trying to do a number on me, which confused my MH team to no end.)

I'm scared that too much stress will make me more ill than I'm feeling currently (stress + drugs caused the major breakdown for me), but on the other hand I know we need to get this sorted out.

As for the MIND guys, well we tried to get her an advocate, and she swore blind that she could cope and told him to jog on, but it might be worth asking their advice.

I have told my mum that I am on hand to do any research/phoning people for general information tomorrow, as this I know I can handle.

Just sent the link to thread to my mum, and rang her and asked her to take a look at it, she will look at it first thing in the morning as her blood pressure has gone sky high. We now have the keys.

balls, now need to call her to remind her to charge her phone!