Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

to be annoyed with myself for defending them

83 replies

smoggii · 30/05/2012 22:16

my family had a discussion last week basically ripping the Philpots to shreds really more about them courting publicity and the usual comments of the DM reader about benefit scroungers etc.

I jumped in with a 'they are clearly devastated and it doesn't matter which walk of life you're from you love your kids and everything else is irrelevant when you have endured such tragedy'

Don't I feel a bit silly?

I just can't get my head around it. I know they haven't been found guilty but to be charged means that the police are satisfied that they (at the very least) can make a case against them and the CPS believe there is enough evidence.

OP posts:

HRH2shoesofMn · 31/05/2012 08:08

but that hasn't happened yet,

Triggles · 31/05/2012 08:10

EatsBrainsandLeaves But the ladder could also have been out in a cluttered back garden or in a shed in the garden easily accessed. Four minutes seems short, but can also be an incredibly long time.

Our ladder is currently inside the house, against the wall in our room (DH took it out the other day to access the attic and hasn't put it away yet, just slid it closed and placed it in our room). It would literally take him a minute to take it downstairs and run into the back garden with it, slide it open and prop it against the wall when rushing madly.

diddl · 31/05/2012 08:15

I haven´t been following this-but how did the parents get out without getting any of the children out (if that is what happened)?

slartybartfast · 31/05/2012 08:16

they were on the ground floor i believe.

slartybartfast · 31/05/2012 08:17

in fact according to The Sun, who must have some sort of source, dad came running up the road? but bbc does not report that aspect of it.

OhNoMyFanjo · 31/05/2012 08:17

Tge dad sleeps in a caravan on the drive, tge mum and his mistress used to spend alternate nights in the caravan and house, tge mistress left the family shortly before. I had assumed both parents were in the caravan however not sure.

HecateTrivia · 31/05/2012 08:17

don't be annoyed. You did the reasonable thing. You gave the benefit of the doubt to people who had not been found guilty of anything. You didn't jump to conclusions without any evidence and try and convict people before any legal process had taken place.

Innocent until proven guilty is always the best way to go. If, ultimately, they plead guilty or are found guilty by a jury, then all that will have happened will be that you didn't decide ahead of time that they were guilty based on how they live or how they look or how many tattoos they have or how many benefits they claim, but waited for actual relevant evidence and a decision by an actual court.

Always the best and most reasonable way to go.

slartybartfast · 31/05/2012 08:20

definitely reasonable to believe in innocence op.

Ephiny · 31/05/2012 08:23

YANBU - it just means you're a nice person and give others the benefit of the doubt, which is not a bad way to be. I was not so kind, and admit I did judge and have my suspicions (based partly I suppose on prejudices about the kinds of people they seemed to be) - though even I hadn't imagined they would have deliberately murdered their own children.

Of course none of us know yet what really happened, what exactly they did or why. Hopefully the truth will come out as the investigation/trial goes on, and there will be justice for those poor children one way or another.

Doyouthinktheysaurus · 31/05/2012 08:25

Don't be annoyed with yourself, much better to be the kind of person that tries to find the best in people. No good really comes of judging people because they have made different life choices or have a different moral code.

I truly didn't believe they would be charged, it's just too hard to comprehend. And it still doesn't mean they are guilty, have to wait and see I guess.

Very sad story though, lots of lives destroyed, not just the 6 children who very sadly died.

diddl · 31/05/2012 08:44

Thanks-that explains it.

I think I read that it started in the early hrs so was assuming (wrong, I know) that everyone would be asleep upstairs.

EatsBrainsAndLeaves · 31/05/2012 08:51

Triggles - I know, which is why I never mentioned it to anyone. It struck me as slightly odd, but I knew there could be a perfectly innocent explanation and I would never want to cast any aspersions on anyone who may be innocent and has lost their children.

OhNoMyFanjo · 31/05/2012 09:12

Ditto Doyouthinktheysaurus

Frontpaw · 31/05/2012 09:21

I guess there will be a news blackout until the trial.

Give people the benefit of the doubt by all means. Its what makes us human.

For some reason I just keep thinking (and I know they haven't even sat trial yet, let alone been found guilty of anything) 'they must be terrified of meeting their maker now'. I'm not particularly religious but feel that there must be a 'special place' for such crimes.

What will happen to the other children? How the hell will the family get through this? They have effed up their lives too.

Frontpaw · 31/05/2012 09:27

I think the worst thing it trying to get your head around the fact that the parents have been charged - the police don't believe that it was some shadowy arsonist sociopath with a real or imaginary grudge. They believe it to be two stupid and greedy people - I know we can only speculate on motive, but surely it wasn't to kill? Anyone who has seen burns victims could never think of this.

RatherBeACyborg · 31/05/2012 09:31

YANBU, I am totally stunned that they have been charged. I watched Mrs Philpott on the news and she was totally broken. I cannot even begin to imagine how she feels. If they are responsible then they are already punished beyond anything the courts could hand out.

Frontpaw · 31/05/2012 09:37

Of course she was broken - I can't believe they expected it to turn out like that. No one person in their right mind could, let alone two together.

I often wonder about the lawyers who take on such cases - where the crime is horrific or there has been much speclation. I think they may suggest that they won't get a fair trial by jury.

wereofftoseethewizard · 31/05/2012 09:37

I always look at press conferences through suspicious eyes now, ever since that girl (was it Tracy) who killed her boyfriend in a supposed road rage incident.
What struck me as odd was the only thing the father had to say was thanks for the support from the public. He didn't mention catching who did this or his children at all.

BellaOfTheBalls · 31/05/2012 09:39

I think there's a lot more to this story, the statement from the police officer certainly seems to suggest as much.

I hope suspect it's not as simple as the DM would like us to believe.

RatherBeACyborg · 31/05/2012 09:45

No they probably won't get a a fair trial, not just because of the horrific nature of the crime, but also for the fact they will be judged on their lifestyles.

I just can't believe parents would be so, so, reckless, stupid, naive to do something like that. I mean I know people do do awful things, silly things but when you're confronted with it like that in the news it feels so unbelievable.

Sorry - I'm rambling and not making much sense...dd2 is on day 6 of no sleep.

I was just so stunned when I heard they'd been charged.

Idratherbeknitting · 31/05/2012 09:47

I'm just stunned. I woke in the night (having left the telly on) to the news and woke up DP to tell him they'd been charged. At the press conference DP said he had his suspicions, whereas I couldn't get over the grief they were clearly showing.

DP's reasoning was that we would have both died in the house with our DC's trying to save them, rather than escaping uninjured... I had to agree with him, as there is NO WAY I'd leave my house with even the guinea pigs left inside, let alone the DC's.

But I've just read upthread that the parents slept outside the house in a caravan???? WTF? Who would ever do that with quite little children inside? It does sound like they were making a clear point about being overcrowded...but not to the extent of trying to burn your house down to get a bigger one.

I said as all the children were school age, you'd surely do something like that when everyone else was out? They'd have had to be rehomed anyway then.

But I'm so stunned and saddened by the whole thing, and I feel so sad for the surviving children. What a life they will have now, whatever the outcome.

Mindyourownbusiness · 31/05/2012 10:00

There was a case in our area whereby a few children from one family died in a house fire apparently started in their bedroom. One member of the family dived in to try and rescue them but he died too. Months later none of the people present at the time have been charged and the rumour locally is that this older relative may have set the fire in order to look like a hero when he then got them out but underestimated how quickly it would take hold. It's terribly sad the lengths people will go to for attention or to get their own way. If of course either story turns out to be true. One thing that struck me about this story (the OP one) is how the dad almost seemed to be apologising to the fire brigade for what they witnessed. No doubt they have criminal psychologists watching every facial movement, words used and tone of voice etc. of anybody who is closely involved.

Frontpaw · 31/05/2012 10:05

I remember years ago seeing a policeman on tv being interviewed saying that sometimes they would encourage people to make appeals on tv if they thought them to be a bit iffy. I know they are more common now, so it's probably all different now. He said that whipping up media interest and puting people on the spot would show any cracks intp their stories.

But then, who knows how they'd react in such a satution? Dingo baby case, anyone?

Frontpaw · 31/05/2012 10:08

I feel for emergency services who attended this one.

I have family in the fire service and they go through a lot of counselling after a road traffic accident, let alone bringing out 5 dead children and one fatally injured.

diddl · 31/05/2012 10:23

But even if they´re involved they be grieving, wouldn´t they?

Flip

1 2 3 4