The true bun fight divider - intelligence

[Bennifer]

Seeing as we?ve got some bunfights going on, I thought I?d ask about a different divider than class ? intelligence. I?ve a fair few friends from a range of backgrounds and levels of education. Sometimes, I can find myself thinking ?how can you not know this?? with some of my friends who are lovely. It might be something historical, geographical, or political. I?m not suggesting I?m a towering intellect, but I suppose, I?m relatively well educated. Is it patronising to have friends where you steer clear of topics. How do you cope with this issue in your daily life?

I don't think it's patronising at all to avoid certain topics with certain people. They might well not be interested anyway - using the example of the Greek crisis; anyone who actually wanted to find out about the causes, current circumstances, etc could do so by reading a simply worded news site like BBC (as opposed to, e.g. the FT which presupposes a certain level of knowledge).

I'm sure many people just don't want to know.

I consider myself to be of above average book smarts, probably average to below average street smarts (at least my DH would think so ). However I have some friends who are of such high book smarts that I can't possibly follow some of what they talk about or maybe I just can't really be bothered and it wouldn't bother me at all if they gave those topics a miss around me.

Everybody has an interest... The trick is finding it so both feel comfortable and on home ground.... That's why people with a wide range of interests should be able to have coherent conversations with a wider group of people...

You might be able to calculate how many jelly beans are in the jar jst by looking but doesn't mean you know how to open it

whatme I couldn't agree more, and what's worse is that people tend to veer towards sources of news that they already inherently agree with, e.g. right wing towards the Daily Fail, left wing towards the Indy/Grauniad, which just affirms their opinions rather than challenges them.

I find the Economist is excellent for a balanced view - and where it is biased, it clearly spells it out - though it's not exactly light reading.

:o

I have a friend with a degree who is very intelligent and full of common sense. But she is not remotely interested in the world around her.

She is smarter and more educated than me but I would never bother discussing current affairs with her because she simply doesn't care what is going on outside of her own little bubble. The only reason what is happening in Greece might trouble her is if she's planning to go there on holiday.

I find the opposite squeaky - lots of the men I know have really boring, pedestrian opinions and are completely unaware of issues around privilege and equality. dull dull dull. whereas the women I mostly hang out with, have a slightly different, interesting take on the world even if I don't always agree with their opinions.

I like the Economist too.

What amazes me is the science / arts divide that persists. Two friends I can think of locally - one is a history academic, lots of publications, travels widely, on R4 to talk about his area of expertise from time to time - but just doesn't 'get' my scepticism about homeopathy. The other is an advocate (barrister) and on career track to become a senior legal person in Scotland - and is the same.

I am always meaning to read that book about the two cultures - is it CP Snow ? (My ignorance...!)

ah this isnt about intelligence as others have said its about keeping up to date with news and general knowledge etc, my sil is a prime example of this she is reasonably intelligent, can play the piano to diploma level and teach it, she has a reasonably good job and is good at IT type stuff but she has NO common sense and never watches the news, reads, newspapers etc, she can tell you all about popular music etc but couldnt tell you who the mayor of london was despite the fact the SHE could vote for them if she wanted, she doesnt and never votes, she hasnt got a clue, i doubt she could tell you who the prime minister is!! it astounds me, i remember how she was really suprised that the teat on a baby bottle would have a hole in it, i mean HOW else would the milk come out, its not porous!!

Meh. I know more than some, others know more than me. In my chosen field i know a lot, in another field i know extremely little.
I know generally about current affairs, i dont know indepth. I am sometimes shocked by peoples level of ingnorance when it come to current affairs. Having said this, i am willing ignorant when it comes to politics.

I could argue that snobbery is thick, mind.

Oh TheUnMember those people are frightening! And yet hilarious.

I don't mind people who declare that they don't read or watch the news and who want to talk about hair. I find more annoying the ones who pretend to know a lot when they don't, who talk with borrowed sentences and cliches and who don't realise they talk rubbish. My sil is like this.

I don't understand not watching the news. Why would you not want to know what's going on?

I am so utterly brilliant I never admit to it while I am hobnobbing with the plebs.

Oh ... whoops ...

What makes it all the more puzzling is that the friends I mention from uni who seem to have "lost their opinions" are both lawyers and I met them recently through work. They work in the public sector and won't have FB accounts in case someone from work recognises them. They aren't interested in discussing anything outwith their own worlds now - not even sports, foreign travel (beyond where they holidayed), fashion. Its almost like a type of deliberate desire on their part to appear to be a certain type of non-controversial, entirely family oriented person.

I don't understand not watching the news. Why would you not want to know what's going on?

Because it's a total misery fest.

I had this face on while queuing in a shop in front of a group of what seemed to be, from their conversation, university students, presumably from our very well-respected local uni.

Student A: that chocolate has a flag on.
Student B: It's because of the golden jubilee
Student C: Diamond jubilee
A: What is a jubilee?
B: 60 years
A: So she's 60? I thought she was older than that.
C: Don't be daft. It's how long they've been married.
B: Isn't it how long they've been coronated for?
C: I'm sure it is married. My grandparents had a golden jubilee.
Pause
C: 60 years is a long time. No-one in any generation on either side of my family has had a marriage last.
B: You just said your grandparents did.
C: Oh yes, my grandparents stayed married.
A: What about your great-grandparents.
C: Yes, they stayed married too.
B: So who didn't?
C: Er, well, my parents.

The current winner of Mastermind is pretty intelligent, PomBear. At least, I hope so because he is a GP.

Otherwise I agree. I have a number of friends with Oxbridge degrees that I think this about and I would LOVE to have been a fly on the wall at their interviews. They are lovely people (wouldn't be friends with them otherwise!) yet just don't come across as very bright at all, yet at their interviews to get into university, they must have really impressed.

As for watching the news, I do keep abreast of things, but find it very difficult to watch the news since having my children. My mother, however, despite having a degree (certainly not saying that this is the proof or the only proof of being intelligent), almost revels in (pretending to?) not being knowledgeable about anything going on in the country/world/whatever, so conversation revolves around her saying nasty things about people she knows or extended small talk.

It's a tough one. Regardless of how intelligent or otherwise you think the person you're talking to may be, it's so easy to have different terms of reference. Age, for example, means that something people my age (forties) would automatically know about is lost on a twenty-something and vice versa. They may simply not care about a subject enough to retain facts. And then there are the bluffers that pretend to know all kinds of stuff but are just talking a good game. So you think they know much more than you do but they know nowt about owt.

DH has a friend who is a teacher. A science teacher no less. This means she is the world authority on everything.

She decided to tell my DH that there were no phone deals for x amount with an iphone. Except DH actually got one. But nope she knew better.

She's pretty much like that on everything. Thing is, she has an education and its no better or worse than anyone else in our circle of friends; she's someone you would term intelligent, but I find her pretty thick actually. What she lacks is life experience, general knowledge and common sense. And the ability to respect what anyone else knows or thinks.

I've had better conservations with people who I would term "less intelligent" because they are interested or have a great deal more about them in other ways. I tend to find that conversations have to be two way processes or they get a bit dull really.

Intelligence has got nothing to do with the topics of conversation I have. You can have plenty of interesting conversations with 'less intelligent' people. Not to mention some 'intelligent' people are just incredibly dull.

Conversations usually are about around things you have in common or something that just comes up naturally. I certainly wouldn't start a serious conversation out the blue on a very serious subject, just for the hell of it. I wouldn't moderate what I say around other people, because that would be patronising and I wouldn't be being me. If they don't get it, they don't get it and the conversation just ends naturally. No point in persuing it, but equally someone might show interest in finding out what you know. I tend to find respect for the other person comes into the equation somewhere too - something that also has no bearing on anyone's intelligence.

If you listen to others you might find out something you didn't know or see things from a perseptive you might not have thought of. Even if something isn't as intelligent as you are used to. Their point of view is still worth taking on board for various reasons.

I find this thread interesting.

Would common sense not be seen as a form of intelligence? Understanding others, your impact on them (ie emotional intelligence) is also a very good skill to learn.

I have got through my entire life on common sense and whilst educated to post graduate level, I've always struggled academically as it doesn't come naturally to me to read text books, newspapers, journals etc. I'm a practical person, hands on and not a reader.

I also don't retain information like some people (I could read something this morning but only relay about a quarter of it if someone asked me about it this afternoon).

I say all this, but still class myself as intelligent. If I don't know something, I'll find it out myself - if I'm wrong about something, I hold my hands up.

You never stop learning and I think that's where some adults fail to continually educate themselves, using excuses like "I'm too old" thinks of her own mother

I am vair, vair well educated. I am also quite clever at the things I am good at. (IYSWIM).

However I have a learning difficulty in mathamatics that affects a broad spectrum of other subjects and topics, and no patience whatsoever with anything that doesn't interest me. So, because I couldn't give a fiddler's fart where Latvia is I couldn't point to it on a map. I don't think this makes me stupid; if you asked me to talk about Kierkegaard or explain the history of the police and criminal justice system in the UK since the 1800s, for example, or pontificate on the life and works of Wilkie Collins, or play a piece of music on the piano after hearing it once (can't read music, part of the 'difficulty'), I could.

But if you had me on your team in a pub quiz you'd probably think I'm a right thicko.

Apparently there are nine types of intelligence. Often people say 'intelligent' as shorthand for 'has a good degree' or 'has lots of A levels'. This can just mean these people are good at retaining facts.

skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Projects/The%20Nine%20Types%20of%20Intelligence.htm

Obviously everyone is stronger in some of these nine compared to others. But my mind is blown if I meet someone who for example, doesn't know who the Mayor of London is or doesn't know what currency is used in Ireland etc. etc.

Wilful ignorance, to take the opposite stance, is the problem I have with people. I can converse with most people, whatever their level of intelligence/ education - but I have a problem with people who are wilfully ignorant.

Like the female students I once worked with who trilled "oh no, I don't know anything about politics, it's so booooring"

Or my brother on most things - he thinks he's the authority on anything financial or computer-related, regardless of being presented with facts that conflict with his "knowledge".

Or his ex who said things like "I don't see why they have to use foreign words in England, it's England - everything should be in English" (in a French restaurant, yes in England but still - crepe suzette?)

Even my mum, God rest her - fought with me over things she was told by doctors some 30y prior to me doing them for my job - she obviously knew better than I did.

Being open to ideas and new information (willing to listen and consider, not just take on board wholesale) is always a sign of cleverness to me - whether you call that sense or intelligence is a matter of individual interpretation.