To feel that having nearly half of your salary taken away is just not right?

[WinnieTheWho]

I don't earn enough to pay tax & NI but my DH has a pretty good job & salary for which he works BLOODY hard. I was horrified to work out after last pay day that for EVERY £1 he earned, he only kept 60 pence. This is due to a combination of paying very high income tax and NI, as well losing all of his personal allowance because he might get a bonus at the end of the year! It just seems that if you work hard to get paid well and you are a PAYE taxpayer, the Government & HMRC will just shaft you from all angles. It just makes me wonder why we bother? So... AM I BEING UNREASONABLE?

What I mean is that his taxes may go to people who will spend some of it in shops/ transport/ buying a house, etc ultimately funding the high salary your oh earns. :)

YABU, bearing in mind you say you don't earn enough to pay tax - where do you think the money comes from to cover your trips to the GP, take your rubbish away, pave roads that you use etc etc?

TantrumsAndBalloons. My argument is not that people shouldn't get help when it's needed. There but for the grace of God go many of us.
What I object to is PAYE taxpayers being hit SO hard when people on far higher incomes get away with paying proportionally much lower taxes on their hundreds of thousand or even multi million pound incomes.

Has anyone asked OP how she can afford the internet yet?

May I?

High earners have more money than low earners even after the tax, was my point. So they still have a higher standard of living. That's why people complain about losing tax credits, cos it actually makes their lives harder (like finding rent, food etc). Higher earners losing a bit of money just means they live more like normal people, it's not a hardship.

That's why a flat rate would be unfair.

Winnie, the discussion about very high earners finding loopholes to ay less tax is very different from your original opening post.

Oh and it's disingenuous to refer to the tax her husband pays, as if it's nothing to do with Winnie. It implies that she contributes nothing. Most highly paid jobs require long working hours or travel away from home and a sahp or a partner whose own job fits in around the higher earner's, supports that, thus enabling the high salary to be earned. It's not relevant that she isn't directly generating the income. Arguably she and her dh could both have lower paid, but more 'equal' jobs, but the loss in taxation would still be the same.

It's a loss to the family income, so she is entitled to view it as hers, even though it is her dh who is technically paying it.

Hebiegebies - if you read my OP again then you will see I state PAYE taxpayers as being easy targets for HMRC

Winnie.

If people ie your DH didn't pay a higher rate of tax, then there would not be help for everyone.
If your DH didn't pay a higher rate you would have to pay tax on your income to make up the deficit.

Of course you can Unmember because it's oh so easy to sell your house these days that's just one example! I think you need to appreciate that some people can be on high salaries but still have very little left in their bank account at the end of the month even without luxuries.

Mushroom soup: your post was very moving, I hope you are fully recovered now.

I'm also a higher rate tax payer and don't begrudge paying my taxes. I agree with snorbs fantastic (as usual) post on the first page.

"High earners have more money than low earners even after the tax, was my point. "

Not necessarily - see my previous posts. Also, read the link about the flat rate of 30% - it would actually work out better for lower earners. Do you just object to HE having a better lifestyle in general?

Really bumblymummy??

I find it very hard to believe that tbh, speaking as a higher rate tax payer.
I very much doubt a family with 2 people working, one at least earning enough money to pay this higher rate of tax would be having to decide between putting the heat on for a few hours or buying enough food.

Maybe your idea of luxuries are different to other peoples.

Tantrums - that would be fine if I knew that everyone, yes everyone - from a lowly PT worker like me to millionaire bankers & footballers were ALL paying proportionally the same.
If that were the case everyone's tax could be lower

I disagree that it's disingenuous to refer - quite accurately- to the fact that it is her dh paying tax. It is simply untrue that all high earning jobs require another person in the background earning nothing or very little. It's something thats said a lot on MN and while it may be true that having one person in a High earning job makes it trickier to organise the logistics, it does not make it impossible.

The fact remains that the lifestyle the op has chosen is to earn very little while her dh earns a lot. The downside to that is that it's not the optimum set up in terms of tax and pension. The upside is that they are probably saving a lot in childcare costs, as two high earners would probably necessitate a nanny or a lot of wraparound care.

Tinkerbel - we had no childcare costs BECAUSE while our DC were young I was a SAHM. We lived on my DH's (then much lower) salary and it was hard. My DC are older now, my DH earns more and I now work PT, but we are not 'rolling' in money for the very reasons I have described just now and in my OP!!!

Of course you can Unmember because it's oh so easy to sell your house these days hmm that's just one example! I think you need to appreciate that some people can be on high salaries but still have very little left in their bank account at the end of the month even without luxuries.

We have little left in the bank at the end of the month and we pay nearly 60% tax. I still think I'd be being totally self-centred and detached from reality if I compared my situation to people having their tax credits taken away.

I thought that the higher tax rate only applies to money earned that takes you over the threshold? So that you'll be paying the same rate of tax as everyone else up to that point and only money earned over that amount will be taxed at 40%.

Winnie, then what is your solution?

There are less high rate tax payers than part time workers, imagine how much money would be lost if everyone paid the same percentage of tax.

Would you prefer to see money taken from schools, the nhs, tax credits for people who need them just so your high warning DH would have a bit more money in his bank at the end of the month?

We should all contribute and the fact of the matter is, if you earn more you can afford to pay more, in order to help people who do not earn enough money to live on.

I think it is a very selfish attitude tbh, as long as your family has a bit extra, you don't need to worry.
Would you be saying that if your local hospital was closed?
Or if there wasn't a local school?

Or would that be ok, because you can afford private healthcare etc.

Tantrums, I know plenty of people who are in that situation. We do actually have some luxuries so I'm not really talking about us. We are by no means ridiculously well off and throwing money around though! It's only very recently that we have a bit of money extra, mainly because of student loans being paid off and our mortgage going down a bit.

I haven't suggested you are rolling in money op.
But you have opted for a certain lifestyle- for you to first of all be a SAHM and then just work part time as the kids are older.

I am not making a value judgement btw - just stating facts. You have chosen to do things this way, putting all your financial eggs in one basket as it were. Other people choose to split the earning more equally, which will have advantages when it comes to tax etc but downsides with other costs like childcare, which it sounds like you have been lucky to avoid.

I think it's even more unfair that very low wage earners pay any tax at all. I think the personal allowance should be raised to say £15,000. Can't really feel too sorry for rich folk. I might feel differently though if I was one of them.

"What I object to is PAYE taxpayers being hit SO hard when people on far higher incomes get away with paying proportionally much lower taxes on their hundreds of thousand or even multi million pound incomes."

But the thing to do is work to change that then surely. It's a strange argument to say "Self-employed higher earners cheat their way out of paying taxes, therefore tax should be reduced for high-earners on PAYE."

FWIW, my DP is a relatively high earner. He doesn't object to paying a higher rate of tax because he believes in the importance of making a contribution to society. The tax goes to fund schools, hospitals, universities, roads, the police, the fire services etc etc. Why wouldn't you want to contribute? We still have enough left over to lead comfortable lives - far more comfortable than the vast majority of the world's population - and we benefit from all the good, publicly-provided things too (the schools, the health service, the roads etc).

That's great for you Unmember. I don't know what you spend your money on and whether or not you have luxuries but I think you're being a bit detached from reality if you can't appreciate that some HR tax payers are struggling too.

Again I find it hard to believe that a family with an income of over £4000 would be struggling to a point they cannot buy food.

Sadly that is the reality for some people who have had their tax credits cut.