To feel that having nearly half of your salary taken away is just not right?

[WinnieTheWho]

I don't earn enough to pay tax & NI but my DH has a pretty good job & salary for which he works BLOODY hard. I was horrified to work out after last pay day that for EVERY £1 he earned, he only kept 60 pence. This is due to a combination of paying very high income tax and NI, as well losing all of his personal allowance because he might get a bonus at the end of the year! It just seems that if you work hard to get paid well and you are a PAYE taxpayer, the Government & HMRC will just shaft you from all angles. It just makes me wonder why we bother? So... AM I BEING UNREASONABLE?

Whatmeworry - once again, allow me to pull out my trusty wiki guide that proves that isn't true at all! In fact, 14% of Swedish residents are immigrants, compared with 10% here

Interesting, it maybe be worth looking at relative education, wealth, and when they all arrived.

Reason I made the point is just this afternoon I was talking to my neighbour who has been looking at education costs vs outcomes of UK vs other European countries (she is part of a UK London task force on this), and the many languages and fairly poorly educated (when they arrive) of the UK's immigrant communities are definitely pushing up those costs per head, and dropping the outcomes.

Gosh, I'm on FIRE tonight. It's wikipedia vs. the Daily Fail

I suspect its more that the Guardian reading middle classes haven't yet had the problems on their doorstep, so don't therefore believe it exists.

The largest percentage of it goes on care for the elderly in this country and my mind boggles that anyone would resent that

The largest percentage goes on the social security system, that's not exclusive to the elderly.

As for the Euro, it was an idea thought up by people with ego's way beyond their remit.

You reap what you sow. Unfortunately we're inextricably linked to it...

The difference between Sweden and the UK (and I was quoting foreign-born, UnMember - do you have different stats?) is that we had colonies which means vast numbers of people are/were entitled to settle here that isn't a situation that applies in Sweden. So you're never going to be comparing like with like.

Interesting, it maybe be worth looking at relative education, wealth, and when they all arrived.

Immigration in Sweden was always around the 6 or 7% mark. It suddenly jumped with the 'war on terror'.

I live in one of the most deprived parts of the UK whatme, with one of the largest populations of asylum seekers per capita. So the problem is absolutely on my doorstep. I just don't blame immigrants for the fact that our economy is shaky at the moment. I blame massive corporations shirking their tax bills and a tax regime that is shockingly lax at pursuing tax evaders rather than poor people trying to eke out a living.

Dowager I was using the ones from the Swedish Office of National Statistics

The largest percentage of the social security system percentage goes on the elderly so not sure what your point was.

Foreign born is 'Utrikes födda'

I also would prefer to live in a society built along the Scandinavian model. They seem to have it right. If that means higher taxes then so be it.

The largest percentage of the social security system percentage goes on the elderly so not sure what your point was

I'd like to see figures confirming that. Though i can see it as plausible.

The point is the current load of powers that be are at least trying to address the issue. I'm somewhat confused as to those who seem to think that's a bad thing. It's indisputable. It needs dealing with.

here and by the way here

Here you go Sparks1, the government budget for 2012. There's a pie chart on page 10 which summarises where spending goes.

really you want sympathy? my DH has been unemployed for 6 months and despite the fact we could claim some benefits we didn't because on my wages which after tax are under the £26,000 the government feel a family can live on, we felt we could, We live in the SE and privately rent, (we have a house with a mortgage we rent out but we have to make up the difference between rent and mortgage so no tax implications there)
we pack DH off today, to start his new job, he will be away all week every week, and he is renting a room above a shop,
but do you know what? he will be in your DH tax bracket with this job, and we haven't moaned, no we had a dance round the room and thanked our lucky stars for our good fortune, he as earned this type of money before and never moaned about tax, and we didn't have savings because we used to and still will sink our excess cash into the mortgage on our house which we can not sell at this time and can not and will possibly never be able to live in again as it is the USA, we don't have green cards.
most people understand what tax is for and even high earners will remain high earner even after the tax is taken off, quit the winging, take your OH by the hand lead him into the garden and dance a happy dance of the people who pay loads of tax but unlike the rest of the hard workers out there have a cushion in these hard times.

I feel really sorry for the OP. It must be so hard living off a husband's high salary and never paying any tax yourself. OP - how do you cope? MN is always here for you. If you need anyone to send you bras, old shoes or tins from the back of the cupboard just say the word.

Nobody should pay any tax at all ever.
Nobody should have to work.
Everything should be free.
I think that is the best solution.

YANBU. A few years ago my DH was offered a role in London. When we looked at the figures, what with a 50% taxation rate, high rents and astronomical school fees we quickly realised that we would be far, far worse off there than we are here ( where we pay 35% tax and own outright). So of course we said no. It's a shame because I would really have loved to live and travel around the UK for a while since many of my forebears are from there. At the moment, DH is working in a similar role to the one in London but tax rate is a flat 15%, for everyone. We are planning to join him around August and let our place out for a while. Of course, rents are also quite high but we won't be worse off by a long shot since we can always choose a less pricy area.

It's one thing to say that people who earn more should pay more taxes to keep the infrastructure afloat. Quite another to say that they should just put up and shut up because if they didn't pay them, how would people on welfare survive? That's madness.

Great post Mimi.
I am not sure all these individual examples of "I pay HRT and don't complain" really advance the point. AFAIK nobody on the thread has grumbled about the principle of paying tax, but they have grumbled about the rate (esp relative to the cost of everything else) and HM gov pissing it up the wall. I don't agree with those advocating higher tax because I don't think throwing money at a problem necessarily solves anything (look at Brown and the NHS-has it really improved? I think not!) particularly where there are many systemic problems and the services in many areas and already badly managed and (frankly) piss-poor.

We lived in Luxembourg paying a huuuuge amount of tax and social security. However, my son went to a local school with two qualified teachers for 18 children per class.
I was able to use a gynaecologist when pregant and fantastic care throughout
Before and after school care is subsidised by th government and therefore affordable, by the way, with fantastic people educated in child care.
The roads are fabulous
The infrastructure is first class
You are able to approach the health professional you want and need I instead if being subject to the desicion of a GP

I think high earners should pay high rates of tax, but they should also be getting good services for that money.

Hmm. I am no fan of Brown or of Blair before him, but I think I would have to say hand on heart that the NHS improved immeasurably under Labour. Of course there has been a bit of a smoke and mirrors culture to make it look better than it really was, but even so it is in a better state than the last lot of Tories left it.

Whether it improved in line with the enormous amount of money that was spent on it is another matter entirely though. In terms of value for money I think it's been a poor show. If it had been managed better it would absolutely be the dog's bollocks by now, given the amount of funding that has gone into it. The same could be said for schools.

You have to be careful looking a Sweden:

1. they are decreasing taxes and so moving nearer our model
2. they have much more land per person so properties are cheaper. who wouldn't be able to live a better life if houses were much cheaper?

I'd agree that the NHS improved drastically under labour, but it's going back in the wrong direction now and that's certainly not because we are paying less tax.

The immigrant thing might just be one of the factors that contributes to the high quality public services they have, I don't think anyone is saying the problems in this country are all down to immigrants.

The fact that we do have such poor state support in so many ways is a disincentive for people to earn more and pay more tax.

DH was offered the chance to earn more about a year ago. He is contract, but the company he works for offered to pay for him to have training and move to another department within the same office. It would have meant a wage increase, and roughly an extra hour each day, but when he looked at it he would be no better of because it would have taken him over the tax threshold. So he didn't go for it. They would have got more tax out of him overall if the hrt threshold was higher than it is, because it would have been worth him doing those extra hours which won I'd have been taxed.

YABU - but you know that surely! And why the assumption that only highly paid people work hard??