Am I right to brush off what 11 YO DD1 said some boys said to her this evening?

[AmIRightInThinkingThis]

DD1 has been playing out with some DC she knows from school (and some she doesn't) while she was round at my mums house tonight.

She didn't want to say what they'd said and so wrote it down, 'They said they wanted to suck the girls they had a crush on tits.'

I think the boys are about the same age as DD1.

I brushed it off as something boys of that age say, they find something they know is rude and giggle at it, saying it to the girls to embarrass them.

Is that right do you think? I don't think it's sinister, more something they've heard from an older sibling and are just being immature.

I'm asking because I'm finding it hard to remember what was or wasn't said at 11 YO (30 years on), and even if I could would that be relevant to gauging what's OK or not nowadays?

AIBU?

I wouldn't be worried about it as long as she's not made to feel awkward or scared in any way about it...and that if she was, she'd feel comfortable enough to stop playing with them.

I have to say...and this is not a criticism, I'd be concerned that she couldn't tell you something like that without writing it down.

The more open our communications are with our kids, the better for all sorts of reasons.

Is there any way you could make her feel more comfortable about chatting to you? She's of an age now where there'll be many things she might need to discuss but she has to feel comfortable about it.

Since the 12 year old daughter of an acquaintance had a pregnancy scare following intercourse with a 12 year old boy, I would take most things seriously.

My lot are armed with a plethora of crude and shocking responses, designed to humiliate the bejesus out of anyone attempting to pressure, embarrass or intrude upon their privacy, verbally or otherwise.

Worra it did make her feel awkward at the time I think, but she certainly would have left them if it had scared her.

We were talking about it when her Dad and sister were in the room, and I think that's why she felt she couldn't say it out loud. We can talk about most stuff (I hope) and I usually err on the side of minimising stuff rather than building it up, so she knows she can come to me and I won't go OTT. But her age and in front of her Dad might have influenced her quite a lot I'd say.

Hypercritical I didn't put my response to her in my OP because I thought it kind of made me as bad as them, but I did actually tell her (written down) to say 'You touch me and you'll get a punch in the [polite version] face, or [impolite version] nuts' but said lightheartedly and joking, not showing if she was bothered by it or not.

Also stressed that if she was in a situation where her gut feeling was telling her it wasn't right, that she shouldn't feel she should stay out of being 'polite', that she should try to walk away without stropping off.

It's not sinister but what it IS is a foreshadowing of what might be to come...ie boys thinking it is ok to talk in a sexual fashion to girls who have not encouraged it.

I think it is REALLY important to give girls the power here...to let them know that they don't have to put up with that./...and give them tools to stop the boys doing it.

I''m not sure telling her to threaten to punch them is sensible either...I think I would be more inclined to have her laugh at them and say something like "You're a little boy and sex isn't something you've learned about yet, I am far too mature to listen to your crap....so shut up about things you dont understand."

And get out of the situation.

Also tell her that if boys EVER say this type of thing in school then she is to complain about them...it's harrasment and not on...needs stamping on.

AmI I think you're right to tell her that she can walk away and that she can talk to you, etc, but I'd give you a wary heads-up on the minimizing thing. When I was trying to tell my mum that I'd been (in words grownups use) sexually assaulted, and I felt horrified and angry and upset and guilty and shameful and all the things one feels when one has been sexually assaulted, my mum did a brisk, jolly, there-there-let's-not-make-a-fuss kind of comforting-but-minimizing thing. This actually caused me quite a lot of problems later as I internalized that I should be feeling fine about what had happened, when actually I really wasn't. Then I felt bad for 'not coping' or 'making a fuss', and it certainly didn't encourage me to tell her anything else.
I'm not saying your DD is traumatized or anything sensational, but I do think that some 'open-ended' listening (where you mirror, ask how she felt, empathize etc) would possibly be better than saying "oh that's no so bad. You're alright, though, aren't you?" because the answer to that question is almost always 'yeah, I suppose' even if the truth is far from alright. By minimizing you are teaching her not to trust her feelings that this is not ok and - newsflash! - this is not okay. The boys were doing it to make her feel uncomfortable, and sexually objectified - it's a jeery, bullying thing to do. And it's totally within her rights to do what any adult would do if a man their age said something like that to her, which is tell them to stop being disgusting and stalk off.

I would probably take it more seriously than you did but I think you're naturally entitled to your own response to it. I just wonder how I would have been as a teenager if I hadn't grown up to think boys saying those kinds of things to me was okay and acceptable, even before I (or they) could understand it properly.

I guess I mean I don't think there's ever an age which is too young to start implementing feminist values and dissuading the idea that boys will be boys and that they are allowed to say what they want because they don't know any better (which they probably don't at 11, but nontheless).

My dss( 22 and 21) taught their dds(13 and 10) to listen to chat from boys. If unhappy then move away, if feel in danger then fist In bollocks time. All good .

I think it's just silly little boys showing off, TBH. I have an 11 year old boy and he's forever coming out with stuff like this to his younger brothers, and it's purely showing off. Whenever I hear it I tackle it but for his part it is testing boundaries and I'm sure he does this with his peers too, seeing what is acceptable and what isn't. Although my boy would probably run a mile rather than be anywhere near a real girl!

If I've read this right, the boys didn't make an actual threat to your daughter, but it was what they said in general that made her feel uncomfortable. I think that you've done the right thing by telling her that if her gut instinct says it's wrong then it is, and to walk away. I'm not sure that what you told her about punching them was the best idea - some boys could take it as a challenge - but I think most would have forgotten about the whole thing by now and would certainly not have any intention of actually carrying out their stated "desire".

Little boys watching much shitty TV, IMO.

TheHouse, I know it wasn't strictly the right thing for her to say in reply, but I'm more of a steering towards her feeling empowered and acting confidently rather than being passive. I didn't mean for her to really threaten them, but just return like with like without showing she was bothered by it.

blackcurrents thank you for your post and I see what you mean. I meant minimising my reaction to what she was saying rather than minimising how she felt. I wouldn't want her to think I'm going to flip my lid and run around like a demented chicken if she told me something that had been bothering her. She knows if I thought it was bad I'd ask more things, maybe she's running it past me to get a bit of perspective?

My intention was to back up how she felt and trust her gut feeling if she thought it wasn't right, but just keeping that in the back of her mind rather than overreacting at every awkward situation she'll find herself in (of which there'll be many I'm sure ).

She knows it's not acceptable, so it's finding the best way of dealing with it when it comes up.

Although my boy would probably run a mile rather than be anywhere near a real girl!

One reason I know DD wouldn't be doing anything is that she's still in the 'ewww boys are horrible' stage

oh - AmI I think you've absolutely got the right balance between supporting her and proving to her that you're not going to fly off the handle, while still agreeing with her that it's wrong - I just didn't want any lurkers to think that brushing it off is a good idea.

Might it be a good idea to start her on a path of 'you can't say that to me!' attitude? You can certainly tell her that if an adult said something like that in public people would range from being shocked at their lack of social appropriateness, to law enforcement cautioning them for harassing behaviour... let her know that most people don't think this is ok, and these boys are in the wrong for trying to make out that it is.
Never to early to start resisting sexist bullying, imho. Never to early to lean, cos alas, it never goes away!

This is really long, but maybe there are some idea's in it that can help you decide what to say, to your daughter, in regards to this. I like the idea of teaching her how to handle a situation that maybe has not yet happened, and practising.

www.kidpower.org/resources/articles/sexual-harassment-schools.html

www.kidpower.org/resources/articles/teen-boundaries.html

blackcurrents it's odd now I think of how I reacted. She's come home saying boys at school have used the words nigger, and paki, spaz, spech, retard etc (I want to but won't asterisk out letters in the first and second, because that would say they're worse than the others and they're all shit), and have had no problem telling her what they meant and they're unacceptable and if it was an adult situation they'd most probably be breaking the law.

But with this, it didn't occur to me that it was a sexist thing to say. Maybe because it involved her, while the other names she's heard at school didn't, making it easy for me to tell her she should pick up the person saying it and tell them it's not on. She's on the outside of it?

I am mindful of not wanting to make her into a 'right on', I'd prefer her to do it with a lighthearted comeback so she wasn't avoided for being overly offended at stuff. It's finding a way of taking the website you linked to's (thanks iscream ) advice without her killing the atmosphere and other DC running off in all directions at her approach.

AmIRIght the most powerful girls are the ones who have the guts to be "right on" and not the ones who are forced to giggle at comments whch are offensive.

Making boys accept that these comments are wrong is so important....I know what you're saying....you don''t want a minature activist for a child and nor should you....but she can learn some strong put downs that are still socially accpetable.

I'm appalled that children so young are coming out with this sexist degrading shit, and that they are sexually aware so young.

I feel really bad for your daughter. I agree with House on the Corner. Parents need to build confidence in their daughters so that they are 'right on' and don't just accept that women are just boys playthings, which is what a lot of magazines and music videos seem to preach.

May I recommend Caitlin Moran book How to be a Woman?
Good luck OP. I'm sure I'll face these issues with my own dd, and I'm dreading it. Society has changed so much since I was a gal....

Are these 11 year olds in year 6 (in which case I think there's a good chance they're parroting) or year 7, when children start to become a great deal more knowing?

I suspect that this is ineptness from the boys, rather than deliberate nastiness. Children try out all sorts of behaviour, and select the ones which become habits based on reactions. At 11 habits are not yet firmly entrenched, and (as peer pressure become more important than parental input during the teen years) this is not a hopeless situation, though it does seem to mark as escalation from earlier reported bad language.

Is there anything DD has asked you to do? Now or then?

What is DD like? I agree you need to talk to her about what reactions will get the best results. First you need to agree on what a desirable outcome from DD's POV is. If she's never used put-downs in her life, then it will be hard for her to start that habit now in circumstances which are already leading to stress.

But will that be necessary - does she actually want to spend time with these boys? Are there any she gets on with better than the rest? I would be surprised if there were more than one or two who are speaking like this; has she noticed if this is the case? If so, can she separate herself from the problematic ones, spend her time with people she likes, and make sure she tells them that it's because of the bad language and bad attitude?

If unacceptable language is being used in school, she should tell a teacher. This might (especially if still in KS1) lead to a PSHE lesson covering why it is wrong. That will help everyone.

I was 11 9 years ago, boys said things like that. I was never anything to worry about.

I also got called tissue tits all that year.

QueenE I've armed DD with loads a few sarcastic, eyerolling-at-their-immaturity put downs, because the class she's in can be a bit shitty to each other and she'd go under if she got upset at every remark.

She seems to be getting on better at school with the other DC the last couple of months, she says it's because she's not getting so involved any more, so I'm reluctant to encourage her to put herself in the firing line more than necessary. There aren't many DC where we live for her to play out with often, so that's another thing I don't want to cut her off from when she goes to my mums.

Cocky you're right to dread it although there are benefits, we can nip out and leave her in the house on her own which is good, and I don't have to walk her right into school any more (hated that).

just say well that was very silly wasnt it

then move the convo on to something else

just silly kids being silly kids

I think it's right to try and give your girl the power to deal with it and trust her instincts. She shouldn't have to giggle at it to fit in, it's not on. And as a pp said, it's good to start teaching girls this from a young age. It will give her confidence in herself.

I remember all this from school, 11 years and upwards. The comments made me feel bad and my response to it was to giggle and brush it off, which in retrospect did nothing for my self confidence. I remember at age 14 a boy from school trying to drag me off into the bushes on the way home. His intentions were not good and I really had to fight him off and run. And I went home, told no one and for some reason thought it was all my fault

It's good that your girl spoke to you, even if she had to write it down. Keep the communication going and teach her how to deal with comments like that, which ultimately can devalue her self worth if not dealt with properly.

Idk, I have an 11yo nephew and I can imagine this is exactly the sort of thing they would be giggling and sniggering about he's def. not a sex pest, just a young lad who's at the age when talking about sex, boobs and girls is the in thing. He still thinks farting in public is hilarious and picks his nose when he thinks nobody is looking, so really immature.
I would expect him to stfu and apologise it challenged about it by a girl though, in fact his mates would rib him for weeks so maybe that's the best way to go?