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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think its descrimination??

64 replies

charllie · 25/05/2012 22:09

I work with children, in a school run by the council. I have worked with children for 14 years and i'm qualified in what i do. I love what i do and i'm good at what i do too. What pisses me off is........the dress code! You're not allowed to wear something that would show cleavage - understandable, something too short - understandable, blue denim - apparently its not 'smart' and no vest tops. Other than that, people can wear what they want, apart from me! You see, i have tattoos and i'm not allowed to show them! I have to keep them covered up. Does having my tattoos on show suddenly mean i'm shit at my job, that i'm a bad person, what does it matter if i have tattoos. They're not offensive. I could understand if they were, but they're not. So in this weather, when its really hot, i'm having to wear cardigans or long sleeved tops so that i keep them covered, i'm having to wear trousers instead of a skirt or shorts. This really pisses me off. Surely its ok, even good, for children to see all types of people around them in a setting, because thats what they're going to see out in the streets, around the shops etc.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 25/05/2012 22:34

Have read a bit more of thread.

I think that if I were you I would be following guidelines and covering up TBH.

MyNameIsntFUCKINGWarren · 25/05/2012 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rollmops · 25/05/2012 22:35

Rules say -cover tattoos, no? You were aware of the rules, yet accepted the position. Now whinging- discrimination?!
Grow up or find another job where tattoos are welcome.

AllKnickersAndNoFurCoat · 25/05/2012 22:35

Just because it's not included as a characteristic within legislation doesn't mean it doesn't exist as a discriminatory behaviour.

It's still discriminatory. Discrimination means 'treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit.'

I'd say this counts as that, definitely.

ThreadWatcher · 25/05/2012 22:35

Are the kids allowed tattoos?

I think yabu

If you taught my dc I would want you to cover your tattoos sorry.

I dont think tattoos fit with the ethos of a school or most business type work places.

TheSkiingGardener · 25/05/2012 22:35

So you're ok with jeans not being allowed, because they aren't smart, but not with tattoos not being allowed to be visible.

Same thing surely, i.e. not projecting a professional image.

SardineQueen · 25/05/2012 22:35

This thread is making me want a tattoo Grin

Nagoo · 25/05/2012 22:37

YABU.

I thought about where I got tattoos for this reason. I have to cover mine to look 'professional'.

There are plenty of clothes you could wear to be covered up and keep cool.

maddening · 25/05/2012 22:37

I think if the bodyart was part of a culture or religion you would be allowed it - 2 girls had dreads at my work - one was half Jamaican and she was able to argue that her heritage meant she should be allowed to keep them when they tried to get her to remove them- the other was fully English and had no grounds so had to remove them.

whether it's right or wrong morally if there is a dress code then you accept that when you accept the job - the only allowance being for cultural reasons.

squeakytoy · 25/05/2012 22:37

Exactly how many tattoos do you have... if you are covered in them, then sorry, but it is not a professional image and does mean people will judge you.

maddening · 25/05/2012 22:37

I think if the bodyart was part of a culture or religion you would be allowed it - 2 girls had dreads at my work - one was half Jamaican and she was able to argue that her heritage meant she should be allowed to keep them when they tried to get her to remove them- the other was fully English and had no grounds so had to remove them.

whether it's right or wrong morally if there is a dress code then you accept that when you accept the job - the only allowance being for cultural reasons.

GodisaDj · 25/05/2012 22:38

Employment law discrimination can only be on the grounds of race, religion, age, disability and sex (including sexual orientation and transgender).

Unfortunately people with tattoos would not be covered by employment law under discrimination. However, if you felt victimised in any way because of the way you look or appear, you could still put in a grievance. From your OP I don't think you are, just feeling pissed off that you can't be yourself in the workplace and hot and bothered by having to wear long sleeved tops Sad

I would encourage you to challenge the dress code policy with senior management / your union / partners council or HR. it would come under dignity and diversity in the work place and ensuring people are themselves at work do you could suggest that having tattoos is about who you are and that it's normal for many people to have them. They may also relax the 'rules' during this hot weather if you pushed it far enough.

YANBU, I feel sorry for you having to wear a cardigan in this weather Angry

What tattoos have you got by the way?

maddening · 25/05/2012 22:39

sorry double post Blush

SardineQueen · 25/05/2012 22:40

Well
I suppose on the one hand a tattoo once done is permanent and can't be changed unlike hair/jewellery
OTOH there is a choice when you have it and to choose a tattoo which you know will be hard to cover / extreme is to separate yourself from the mainstream as it stands at the moment. Remember those men with spiderwebs tattooed on their faces in the 80s? I wouldn't be terribly keen on someone with a tattoo like that teaching my children. Not that I have seen one for years but still.

I have a friend who is super-tattooed and has jobs in very traditional environments and she wore long sleeves the whole time. The tattoos on her hands were not that out of place somehow. She did what was expected in terms of attire in the role in question. I think that is fair enough TBH.

squeakytoy · 25/05/2012 22:41

People in countries much hotter than this manage perfectly well wearing loose fitting clothes, so there is no real benefit from having a much flesh on display as possible. It does not keep you any cooler.

Original poster
charllie · 25/05/2012 22:41

WorraLiberty i think i just went with it just for an easy life, at the minute the one on my wrist is allowed to be shown and others have similar (tattoos on forearms-not big ones) and they can be shown. I never said more as i was worried that if i pushed it, they'd stop all of that and then everyone would have to completely cover up because of me.
My DD has said she wants tattoos when she's older, which i'm fine with, but have told her that she needs to wait until she's old enough to get them. The only reason that she happily went to after school club for the first time was because the lady in charge there had tattoos and was showing them, she liked her stars on her foot and wanted to go back to the lady who had the stars. And that made me lol you talking yourself round in a full circle :o

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 25/05/2012 22:41

I think the fact that you felt your prospects at interview would be damaged unless you hid them makes it clear that you were pretty certain when you took the post that you'd have to cover them.

I don't think they're appropriate in a school environment and I don't think you're a victim of discrimination.

I have one on my upper arm but they aren't a problem in my job - wouldn't have had it when I worked in a school.

AllKnickersAndNoFurCoat · 25/05/2012 22:43

I have stars on my foot!

That's the problem with tattoos. You think you're being all original then some other bugger gets the same thing Angry

ThreadWatcher · 25/05/2012 22:43

Squeaky - I actually find wearing more can be cooler!
A floaty skirt for example is cooler than shorts, for me anyway

SardineQueen · 25/05/2012 22:44

The other point is that there is a reason people have "sleeves" with tattoos - it is for exactly this reason. They stop at cuff level.

Of course women have a lot more freedom in what they wear in traditional work settings so that is a real difference. Tattoos even on really tattooed people stop at neck and sleeve - for a reason - that a man could be tattooed all over and no-one would be any the wiser. I guess a "tradition" in sleeves / skirt type thing is something to think about for women. There is a disinclination to tattoo faces for a good reason.

BoffinMum · 25/05/2012 22:47

Things I do not expect to see professionals sporting.

Woad
Felt tip drawings all over their skin
Tattoos

Buy some blouses. Wink

OTheHugeManatee · 25/05/2012 22:48

Illegal and unjust discrimination is on the basis of things people have no control over, such as age, race, sexual orientation, ability etc. Tattoos don't fall under that category, I'm afraid, unless someone held you down and forced you to get covered with swallows or roses or whatever.

You may not like the prevailing culture that disapproves of tattoos, but that doesn't entitle you to demand that it change on the basis of a completely unrelated set of rights.

AllKnickersAndNoFurCoat · 25/05/2012 22:48

....What is woad?

I can't google it

Because I heard it on mumsnet

And I still have nightmares about blue waffle

WorraLiberty · 25/05/2012 22:51

I'm still going round in circles here Grin

Although staff at my DS's Primary are not made to cover their tattoos, it has to be said I know of only 2 staff members who have them...out of around 50+ staff I know.

Perhaps that's because they went unnoticed during the interview or because the school at the time, really wanted to offer them the jobs.

Now with all the LA cutbacks, schools are taking on less and less TA's (don't know if this is your job) and a couple of months ago, they advertised one TA position and had 80 enquiries within 2 weeks.

Now unless Super TA were to turn up and be the best ever person at that job, I'd say many of them were much of a muchness.

Therefore when choosing between them, it's quite possible tattoos were/can be considered when deciding yes or no.

Therefore, if it's in the school policy I'd adhere to it...otherwise you may find youself struggling to find work in another school.

SardineQueen · 25/05/2012 22:52

I read that as sporting professionals

And thought: Eh? They are covered in tattoos!!!