How do I handle this ex-friend?

[becstarsky]

Sorry this is so long ? would be grateful for an MN verdict and it?s more of a WWYD and quite trivial?. But maybe IABU and you can point out to me exactly why.

So I had a good friend who is no longer friends with me through her choice. We live very close to each other and work in the same (small) industry so our paths will always cross frequently.

About three years ago she started making it clear that she didn?t want to be friends (not returning phonecalls etc.). My concern at the time was that I was sad that the friendship was obviously ending, but I was also worried that I?d done something wrong. In fact I knew I?d done a couple of things wrong ? eg there was one time I was supposed to meet her and forgot (I?d had brain damage from encephalitis and my memory was awful for a while) I stood her up and it was embarrassing and awkward for her. I apologised profusely, she said it really didn?t matter. She made so light of it that I assumed all was well but I wonder whether it really rankled and she just wouldn?t say. I also think that she got bored of me going on about DS and DH (she?s unmarried, no kids) ? I can be pretty obsessive about wittering on about them and it could have got very boring for her to listen to. I could understand why we?d drift apart ? our lives have moved in different directions. I just wanted to be sure that I hadn?t done anything wrong and if I had I wanted to apologise for it before we went our separate ways rather than do it with bad blood ? especially as our paths are bound to keep crossing.

So about two years ago, I sent her an e-mail saying that if I?d done something wrong I was really sorry, and please tell me what it was so that I could apologise properly for the thing I?d actually done as I wasn?t sure if it was something I wasn?t even aware of doing (I can be pretty tactless at times, so might easily have said something stupid ? I really have no idea what it could be though, no memory of saying anything in particular). She replied with a very long e-mail saying that she just felt guilty we didn?t see much of each other because she is so busy, and that she therefore felt awkward about meeting up. But there was a tone in it that suggested she was still pissed off. Anyway, we met and had a rather strained chat where I thought she was going to tell me what she was pissed off about and that I would then apologise, but she didn?t, and when I asked she said ?oh no, everything?s fine?.

Fast forward to the present day. Our paths cross every few months ? professionally and in the street. Every time she puts her nose in the air and ignores me. If there are other colleagues around who we both know she says ?hi?, asks after my DS and acts like we?re really good friends. If it?s just the two of us she ignores me in a very pointed way ? walks straight past me in the street and at professional functions.

I would put it down to experience if it wasn?t for us both working in the same small relationships-based industry and coming across each other professionally. I don?t think it does my professional reputation any good to have someone in a very small industry who feels such a strong dislike of me while being nice to my face.

Firstly IABU to give it any headspace? And secondly WWYD to limit damage to my professional reputation? And when I see her should I say a cheery ?hello? and just keep walking? I sometimes wonder whether she thinks that I blank her because I?ve given up saying ?hello? having been blanked a few times? But when I do say ?hello? she has usually either ignored me, or stopped for an overly friendly (and therefore quite stressful) chat with lots of ?we must meet up!? which is so false that it makes my teeth itch as she clearly doesn't want to be friends any more. Which is FINE - friendships end... I just don't like the sense that I seem to be the bad guy without knowing what I've done, and that it is in my professional life not just personal life.

Should I ask mutual friends whether she has said why she fell out with me? I've never asked because I didn't want to talk about her behind her back and I'm happy to let the friendship go but I'd like us to behave more like grown ups when we meet! MN Jury, tell me what you think and I'll do exactly as the jury decides because I've got no clue myself!

Did you post about this in another thread recently?

Nope, haven't ever posted about it. Maybe it's a common problem

Yes, YABU to give her any headspace.

Maybe forgetting to meet her and droning on about your family ticked her off, but you've apolgised and if she can't accept it then it's her issue.

The only chatting to you when colleagues are about sucks ass though.
You need to say (in front of people) "Oh, we're talking now then? Yesterday when I saw you you stuck your nose in the air and ignored me."

Do that, then give her no more thought.

She sounds like a headcase.

I would have asked mutual friends long ago if they knew what I'd done wrong, so yes, ask if only to put your mind at rest. You can't influence her imo very silly behaviour though. I think you should be civil and pleasant to her in public and her odd behaviour will reflect far more on her professional reputation than hers.

Are you rivals in this industry, does she see you as a threat to her business?
I personally would just keep things to a professional level and give a normal greeting when you meet up in a business setting and let her look a complete cow if she doesnt answer. Don't be gushing, just a "Hello, nice to see you" type thing and leave it at that.

Sorry, it's really similar to a thread I read the other day. I agree that this can be a common sort of problem. I would ask mutual friends if they know anything - as discreetly as possible.

For a start stop making excuses for her bad manners, stop blaming yourself and stop putting yourself down! Please! :)

If it were me, I'd just ignore her. Partially because it pisses people off no end, partially because I just can't be arsed to play games. I'd give her the cold treatment professionally where I could get away with it - i.e. if I walked into a room where was sitting she'd get a nod and a curt "Jane" (or whatever she's called, obviously!). What I would not do is apologise again or try to be especially nice to her.

Well, I think you probably did trash the friendship by forgetting to meet her (annoying but forgivable), droning on about your family when she doesn't have one (rather unforgivable) and being tactless (not good) so I can understand why she has "terminated" you, to be honest.

Just greet her pleasantly when you see her, and respond to her enquiries in front of other people charmingly. She may come round.

Only ask other people if you've done something to annoy her if you are prepared to hear the response.

YABU to give her any head space. Your friendship is over. Stop torturing yourself about why and don't ask anyone else.

You say that you are worried about limiting the damage to your professional reputation. What damage has been done?

Cornflowers, i think you mean the thread about the friend called "Enid" and the dismissive email. I worry about myself and the amount of time I spend on MN that I know that....

OP

I have a similar issue, I have fallen out with a neighbour and I see her ALL THE FUCKING TIME

i swear, every time I leave my house. so we pointedly ignore each other, its like we are 15

here is the deal. the issue is not the fall-out (I can live without her in my life) , its the constant awkwardness. Its the "oh shit" when I see her and have to turn my head

So her is my advice

dont sweat it, and try to be vvv disciplined about NOT giving her headspace
Nod politely, and leave it at that
dont ever discuss her

and the pain will fade

I would not try and resolve it, sometimes things are messy and unclear. c'est la vie

its a head fuck though, you have my sympathies

Yes, Cornflowers/Kamer - I thought it was the "Enid" saga again!

I didn't know there was another similar saga on MN recently! I'm a bit sporadic in my MNing - always either addicted or abstaining

This all sounds like very sensible advice - thank you all! In terms of professional reputation I have no idea whether any damage has been done, and it's the kind of industry where I never would know - it's a very relationship-based job. I get all my contracts on personal recommendation (I'm freelance). So if I ever didn't get a job at a place where she had worked, I'd know that they would have asked her what I was like as they would know that we would have crossed paths, but I wouldn't know whether that was the reason I hadn't got the job. I'm often asked 'do you know so-and-so? Is she any good? Is she nice?' and then so-and-so gets hired or not on my say so. Not the most efficient hiring process, but I don't think it's uncommon in small industries.

So far the verdict seems to be - stop thinking about it! But I think I will ask a mutual friend discreetly. She might also be able to give me a lie of the land about whether this ex-friend is a problem for me professionally or not. porcamiseria you are right that the messiness of it is what is so irritating. I don't mind drifting apart - it happens, I've got a very different life to her. Part of the reason for me droning on about DH and DS with her was that I really didn't have enough common ground any more with her and was filling up the spaces. But there's clearly bad blood from the way she's reacting so it's more than just 'not much in common any more'. Unless she's embarrassed that we're not friends any more maybe... Oh, now I'm giving it head space again and going against all your wise advice.

Just a thought about speaking to you when others are there: she could just be trying to come across as nice. OR, she could be trying to make sure that the fact she has an issue with you, whatever it is, remains just between the two of you. In which case, she is being reasonable. Either way, if it is not yet obvious to others in your field that there is a problem, beware of doing anything to bring it out into the open, in case it rebounds on you.

The friendship has drifted away. Now you are just polite colleague acquaintances not friends. Accept it and treat the relationship accordingly.

you have my smypathies! My neighbour saga is doing my head in and I am giving it far too much head space too

and I also wonder "is she ignoring me cos she hates me, or is she ignoring me cos she thinks I will blank her"

and from day 1, I had doubts as to her niceness!

Lets mutually resolve to not let it bother us , HA

OP, it has been 2 years since the friendship ended. If there were professional implications to this, do you not think that you would have felt them by now?

Before you make any enquiries (no matter how discrete), be clear with yourself why you are asking. You could be creating more problems for yourself.

V good point EldritchCleavage. I have a very discreet friend who I trust - I'll ask her and only her. If I say 'X and I used to be really close but I hardly see her now. How's she doing? I sometimes wonder whether I did something to annoy her...' . That should do it, no? But not make a big deal of it. Def agree with the resolution porcamiseria - the weirdness of it is not good for me, I'd like to just meet her as mynewpassion puts it as 'polite colleague acquaintances'.

DionetheDiabolist I took a career break for two years while DS was little, and only just came back in January. TBH I wasn?t expecting to come back into the same industry, I was thinking that I?d do something else, but it didn?t work out that way. It didn?t occur to me that it might affect me professionally until we were at a professional event and she was sitting with people I didn?t know, I said ?Hi X? just as I walked past, and she ignored me quite obviously.

Going to leave the thread for a while as I?ve got some work to catch up on, but I?ll be back. Thanks so much for your good advice everyone ? it might seem petty from the outside, but it has been stressing me. I don?t mind friendships ebbing away ? it?s natural ? but I don?t like to feel that I?ve done something wrong and don?t know what it is. And I?m usually uber-professional at work, so any ?messiness? there is a bit upsetting.

I think you are investing too much thought in this and you are coming across as a bit obsessed with this ex-friend and beating yourself up about what might have gone wrong. You said yourself that you can be obsessive, that you talk a lot about your family when she has no partner or children, and that you can be tactless. You are still worrying about what she may be saying about you, about whether others pick up on her attitude towards you. Could it be that, on the other side of the coin, she sees you coming and thinks - oh no, here is Becstarsky coming to ask what she has done to offend me, apologising for perceived faults, why can't she just move on?

gramercy Why is it unforgivable for the op to talk about her family to her unmarried childless friend?

It may bore the friend or irritate her, but not every single childless woman is yearning for a husband and kids, I will never ever get married, all of my friends are, they aren't tactless when they talk about their husbands to me, and I'm sure I'm not doing anything wrong when i talk to my one childless (by choice) friend about my child.

OP You're overthinking things, let it go.

It is quite rude to go on about anything to someone else, especially if they don't share the same interest, no matter what it is. Ever been stuck with a golf bore?

But in the case of families, it is always more sensitive. Some people are perfectly content with no partner/children; others might want to push your face in if you are waxing lyrical about your fantastic family life, especially if time/health means it will never be an option for them. You have to err on the side of caution in these matters imo.

I think she has made her feelings clear.

Ignore her in future and definable don't give her headspace.

When we first moved to this area, there was a woman who didn't like me. I have no idea why as we'd had no contact at al. Her children went to the school my dd did, so I'd see her at pick up and drop off time, and occasionally our paths would cross on the way. I always said hello in a friendly way and she always stuck her nose in the air.

I went on saying hello for years, mainly because I knew it annoyed her; as I'd never had an opportunity to have any other contact with her, I knew she disliked me just because she did and it was nothing to do with me, so it just vaguely amused me to be slightly friendly to her.

I think you should say hi when you see her. Let her stick her nose in the air.

I agree with the person who suggested that when she is friendly towards you in front of witnesses you should say something pointed. After you have parted you could also say to the people you are with that it's sooooo funny how she only ever speaks to you when there are other people around......

This is all good sensible advice. I am indeed obsessive, I do overthink things, and I think you're right that I need to just let it go and not worry about it any more. On reflection I won't mention it to our mutual friend and if X comes up in conversation I'll keep it polite but neutral. When I see X I'll say 'hi' briefly though - the 'ignoring nose-in-the-air' thing is just too weird for me.

tbh I don't have a bad word to say about X - so I don't have to be false at all. She's a very nice person and very good at her job and the only thing I could conceivably say against her is that she doesn't like me much any more - which is hardly her fault and quite possibly mine.

I'm not terribly good at friendship. I didn't have friends at school and didn't have siblings at home growing up so I'm grateful for the advice as I am quite out of my depth. Thank you all!