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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that we don't need employers to kick us while we're down...

42 replies

JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 21:43

1 friend made redundant while recovering (thankfully) from life threatening condition.
1 friend made redundant despite hard work/ dependent family.
3 friends left work due to stress in the workplace.

We get up every miserable day and go to work, see the decision makers day in day out. Talk about your upcoming holidays/ how family are... And then when it comes down to it you're just a number and don't matter. Bye bye.

I realise in the big wide world these things happen and have to be dealt with, but seriously there is such a thing as timing. I don't expect struggling companies to carry people, just to show a bit of respect. After all, the people running these 'companies' are people too. Where is the empathy!?!?

OP posts:
Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 21:43

That feels better...

OP posts:
youarehere · 22/05/2012 21:47

So it would be fairer to make those who seem to have a good and easy life redundant instead? What if those people are just private and don't want everyone to one their business? I think yabnu to feel bad those people. But yabu to assume other people deserve it more based on a perception of happiness.

AnnaBegins · 22/05/2012 21:48

I agree, two people were made redundant today where I work, and yet the directors went out for a posh meal tonight. Really bad taste I think, if I were one of the two who were made redundant, that would annoy me most, that there is money for "expenses" but not for hard working staff.

AnnaBegins · 22/05/2012 21:49

To clarify, that was to OP, tho I do agree with youarehere that no one deserves it more or less.

Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 22:10

Fair enough, I guess it did sound like I was making excuses for them. I do realise everyone has things that make their lives tough and of course not everyone is public about stuff.

But that's kind of the point isn't it? Some employers really don't seem to care that people have lives outside of work that are going to suffer. There's just no compassion. It makes me really sad.

OP posts:
Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 22:13

...suppose that's what I meant when I said I don't expect employers to carry people. Fine make the guy redundant... but not when HR know full well that maybe it should wait till tomorrow...

OP posts:
OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 22/05/2012 22:14

From your OP it doesn't sound like the people in the last two examples you gave would have to be 'down'.

Redundancy is redundancy, it's because the job ceases to exist, not because of what the employee has done or has going on in their personal life.

Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 22:16

Samar for those with stress, it could be so easily avoided with a bit of human kindness...

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Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 22:16

Similar not Samar! Silly phone.

OP posts:
CaptainKirk · 22/05/2012 22:20

I was at a company 9 years working my way up from the shop floor to management. I was in the office 3 years working closely with the three owners. All through this we had 3 IVF's and spent 2 years going through the adoption process. I was very open with all of it and had many conversations with them about it all. I was made redundant with a dozen others 3 weeks before our 18mo son came to live with us. Nice timing. Another 10 or so managed to keep their jobs from the consultation. No reason I shouldn't have. Bastards.

On the plus side, instead of just having two weeks paternity leave I've had the last year to bond well with our boy. Just have to look for the silver lining I guess...

JeremyPaxmansEyebrow · 22/05/2012 22:21

At the risk of being shot down in flames, my comments...

Sometimes businesses have to cut costs to survive. And in many businesses, people represent the greatest cost to the business. So difficult decision based on OBJECTIVE criteria need to be made. If the business does not live within its means, the whole company may go under, and many more staff may lose their jobs.

Managers CAN'T select staff for redundancy based on their perceived need for work, or their personal circumstances - hard decisions like that need to be made on what staffing will leave the business in the best state to survive in the future.

I think you are being unfair to assume that all managers making these decisions have no compassion. I agree it sound very cliched (and they would risk a good thumping!) to come out with some crap like "this hurts me more than it hurts you" (I'm thinking David Brent here), but decisions involving people's futures are always hard, and I am sure they are rarely taken lightly.

Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 22:23

Sorry to hear that happened to you CK! Don't know what to say to you, it's just rubbish when people get treated that way IMO.

Glad you've had nice time with your boy though! I hope all my friends I've mentioned can turn this into a positive too.

OP posts:
Fireandashes · 22/05/2012 22:25

I think the vast majority of employers find implementing compulsory redundancies one of the hardest and least palatable aspects of management, and the best managers probably feel quite a lot of guilt about the individuals who are let go, but if the alternative is for the entire company to go under and everyone to end up out of work...sometimes it's a case of a rock and a hard place.

Jinsei · 22/05/2012 22:25

Yes & no. Sometimes it's even more stressful being the decision-maker. :( Not all managers take the power that they have over other people's lives lightly, you know. I have had to sack people previously, and it's very likely that I'll have to make a few redundant in the near future. I don't do it for fun, it's my job.

And yes, I do lose sleep over it, it's fucking hard.

Fireandashes · 22/05/2012 22:26

X-post JPsEyebrow

CaptainKirk · 22/05/2012 22:27

Thanks! The down side is that I still haven't found regular work and things are getting a bit desperate. Fortunately my wife has a good job AND a side business but if I don't find something soon the lad will have to come out of nursery and I'll become a SAHD. Sort of nice, but I really miss working.

Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 22:28

I hope you're right JeremyPaxmasEyebrow! I hope they do think these things through carefully. Of course in the future it may just be bye bye you're fired and no redundancy. But again, sometimes these things are done with little tact or consideration to timing.

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Jinsei · 22/05/2012 22:28

X posts with JP and Fire!

drcrab · 22/05/2012 22:30

Yes of course the idea is that objective criteria should be used and transparent procedures etcetc.

My dh was made redundant from his practice a few years back. Reason cited was 'well Drcrab has a job so you'll be fine. Unlike your colleague who's wife doesn't work...'. How objective is that??!! Hmm they also cited things like clients relationship. Ironic given that his clients that only v recently sent in their evaluation and said that they only wanted to work with dh on future projects. Ironic too that the practice won another project with those clients - the project that my dh designed. Hmm oh and after that round of redundancies I think the partners bought new cars. Charged to company.

I'm not impressed with them at all. On the flip side he's set up on his own, we have no travel costs and he's doing v well thank you v much!! Grin

Original poster
JustOneMoreBiscuit · 22/05/2012 22:30

I do mean some and sometimes here by the way!

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OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 22/05/2012 22:32

You have a good point about there being a need for more human kindness, but unfortunately kindness doesn't pay wages.

When I got made redundant from a small business with only four employees my boss felt awful, and she couldn't have been lovelier about the whole thing. But she still had to close her business and make four people redundant in one fell swoop.

WhereYouLeftIt · 22/05/2012 22:32

I've always worked for big companies, so the manager informing you that you were redundant was not necessarily the one who had made the decision IYSWIM. Indeed, one of my managers, who was also being made redundant in that round, said he found it easier to give the bad news knowing that he was also being laid off.

edam · 22/05/2012 22:32

JOMB - you have a point. And the people who have said those responsible for the decisions sometimes feel bad have a point too. But feeling bad while still having a job makes them the lucky ones.

I once watched my boss tell a whole department they were being made redundant. I knew this guy - cocky little fecker who always came out smelling of roses. He managed to make the people he was sacking feel sorry for HIM on the grounds that he had clearly found it difficult to a. make the decision and b. tell them. Nice trick - and it was a trick. He's gone on to do very well indeed, constantly booted upstairs every time he fucks up, and every time leaving a trail of other people suffering behind him.

CaptainKirk · 22/05/2012 22:34

In my case, it turns out that the problems the company I worked for had and foresaw never came to anything and 6 months after I left they were doing better than ever. They went through the whole process for nowt. Bastards.

edam · 22/05/2012 22:35

I've had to tell people they are being made redundant, btw, but as in whereyouleftit's story, I was being made redundant at the same time, so at least there was fellow feeling. Plus I knew that I'd argued for and got a better deal than was originally on offer for all of us. As far as being made redundant goes, that's about as good as it gets. Was still shitty and horrible.