To think the 'Save the verges 2012' campaign is elitist and self-serving

[Goldenbear]

We live on a road that is not in a parking zone area in a very congested city. This was one of the reasons we chose to move further out if the city to avoid the cost of a parking permit.

Today a woman and man were knocking on doors in our block to explain their campaign. I didn't answer because I had just finished having a shower but I did earwig when my neighbour answered. They explained their campaign's 'green credentials' to my neighbour and how all the cars parked on the verge looked unsightly. There are three seperate blocks with the same gardens at the bottom of our road. You are not allowed to park on the verge the other side as it is double yellow lines. Across the road is a huge block of flats on a private estate with a private road with lots of houses along this private road that you need a permit (private) to park on. A lot of people renting do not get permits so park on our side of the road on the verge. Also, the flats date from the 1930's and every flat had a garage by the 60's but most of the flats don't own a garage now and they are rented out seperately. We don't own one so we also park our car on the verge. In the week commuters park on the verge as there is a station nearby and the main route is to London.

Anyway, everyone parks their car on the verge facing the pavement as it allows more cars to be parked. It is a wide road and wide verge so no cars are even near the pavement.

After my neighbour closed the door on the campaigners I heard the woman say, 'I know she said she needs to bring her shopping in but when I walk back to my house and go past all these cars it is so unpleasant.'. Later today we returned home parked on the verge and a lady walking past said something as she was passing. My DP asked her to repeat herself as we didn't hear it all and she said that we were ruining the grass etc.

I see their point in that it would look nicer but everyone parks like that to not be selfish and allow for more spaces. We are a family with 2 children that own one car that would have to be parked quite far away every night if they had their way. It is an expensive area to live in so we cannot afford to buy a house to park our car outside. There are about 9 family's like ours in the three blocks so we are not the exception.

I think it is elitist and self serving as basically it spoils the view for people who walk up to their big Victorian houses on the hill and around the corner. There are no cars parked on the verges outside their houses where they live on their own or as an older retired couple. Oh and they have drives or can park right outside their homes. Am IBU in thinking this?

Are you legally allowed to park on the verges? shouldn't cars be parked on the road?

It does make streets look a bit crap when people park on grass verges and I think it's selfish to do so as it was your choice to buy a house without parking when you know you have a car. When you do this you take a chance with available street parking.

People who pay Council Tax and therefore probably for the maintenance of said verges have a right to voice their opinion about people vandalising the verges by dragging a couple of ton of metal on wheels over them so yes IMHO YABU.

Of course they have a right to express their view and they're doing so at some covert meeting they have set up with the council. It is not selfish as if you park on the road you take up about 2.5 spaces.

A lot of people live in these blocks in total. I don't know about the feelings in the other blocks but everyone in this block owns a car that they park on the verge so I can't imagine them backing this campaign.

It is not illegal but you're not allowed to park their when it is newly mowed grass.

You say we had choice as to whether we lived on that road, yes we did have a choose between out flat and another but unfortunately no choice to purchase or rent a house in this city as we don't earn enough even though my DP is a part 2 qualified architect. It is laughable but we are the lucky ones actually able to buy somewhere. The people moaning about the unsightly cars are lucky to rattle around in their big old homes worrying about such things!

YANBU. Bu don't get worked up about it, the 'campaign' is unlikely to get anywhere, and these people obviously have too much time and too little life if this is the stuff they want to dedicate their time to. Ignore it and park where you always do.

Yanbu - I agree with freddo. It is the same on an estate near us. None of the houses (prefab - built after the war) have parking spaces and have to park on the grass verges. It would look nicer if they could park somewhere else but there is nowhere else to park.

If they are meeting with the council why not pen a letter voicing an explanation why the verge is used and that there is currently no alternative, though since they are on the subject, you'd welcome one, and/or ask to be included as a resident to explain to this group why people park there in the first place? You could ask round your neighbours to see if anyone else would be interested in raising awareness of your needs as a community with the council? :)

Or just ignore it as the council may do...

I know what you're saying, it's a bit like getting worked up about wheelie bins but I suppose it feels a but like a campaign to stop people from owning 1 car that don't own a £800,000 house!

I definitely will be informing the council of the limited options to park. The thing is it is not a central part of the city and it is just that bit of the road. There is no problem around the corner, where the big houses are or up the road!

YABU

A campaign like that once happened here and the council just tarmacced over all the verges. Problem solved...

So people with expensive houses have no right to complain that people in cheaper housing are turning grass verges, in places where they pay high Council Tax, into a muddy mess?

YANBU

Unless the lady in question has no car she is being a tad hypocritical.

Yes that's right Smogli, they pay high council tax so the opinion counts for everything! It is actually not a muddy mess anyway.

What I object to is the lie that it the 'green agenda', it is not about that it is about their view being spoilt on their occasional trip around the block.

*namechange', IABU why??

Council tax has nothing to do with it. I'm sure OP has to pay council tax too! And people living in expensive houses don't have a right to tell people in cheaper houses what they can and can't do to suit them. That post comes across horribly smoggii

I'm not saying their opinion counts for everything but they are as entitled to theirs as you are to yours.

And grass verges usually do turn into a muddy mess when people park on them.

FWIW i don't have anything like an £800k house and I have to park on a busy street. I never park on grass verges and it nobs me off when people do, it often causes obstruction, wrecks the verges (rare patches of green in an increasingly concrete landscape) and it looks rubbish.

Cars parked on grass verges makes a right churned up mess of mud and crap, and completely spoils the area. It just smacks of selfish car owners that don't give a damn about creating a mess, along the same lines as littering and parking your car in the middle of two spaces 'so it doesn't get scratched'.

• the opinion of a disgruntled working class that can't afford to run a car.

Of course they are entitled to opinions, but if there is nowhere else to park, what are people supposed to do? They have to park somewhere.

It is just not like that redyam. It is not churned up mud. Class and wealth don't go hand in hand around here. Yes I do own a car, as does my neighbour who works in a bar, as does the neighbour below who works in a call centre, as does the retired man who plays bowls, as does the family of 4, the man of which works in a bike shop. These are not middle class professions so on the surface it doesn't seem like oh middle class people can afford to run cars.

That's my point, if we parked on the road it would be selfless because that is 2 less cars for that space. Are you saying that people of a certain income are only allowed cars then? People who have the income to afford a big enough place to have a drive or people that live in houses that result in few occupants per road?

'selfish' not 'selfless'

Oh and where I live, these verges do not provide a rare patch of green. Another 5 mins drive you're at the foot of 'The Downs'. Also, it does not cause any obstruction.

The fact is, where we meant to park our car?

I tend to agree, people should not park on verges.

If you live in a big congested city, car parking is a problem.

Why would you think they are having a 'covert' meeting with the council?

The meeting doesn't sound very covert, if they've been banging on doors telling everyone about it!

And if that is the only place with the problem, and it's no problem to park down the road a bit or around the corner, then why dont you do just that? YABU.

I was exaggerating- there is no publicity regarding this meeting (that is very soon) on the council website and if they hadn't visited people in the block trying to drum up support, no one would've known about it. The campaigners are a group of parochial, conservative, eltists that call themselves, 'Old Friends' of .......' they don't want to see any changes around here and it is an inconvenience to their privileged lifestyles to have it on their doorstep.

The reality is that families like my own have limited choice as to whether we live in flats as opposed to more suitable accommodation - a house, which on our income 30 years ago would've been affordable. Even 15 years ago. We are already living on the edge of the city to afford a better standard of flat. My DP works in the centre and will walk (40 mins) or cycle in but if we moved out of the city to get a house, which we have tried, we can't afford the train fare and we definitely can't afford for DP to park in the city centre. So when people talk of 'choice' up thread as to where we live, yes we do but it's not as simple as that!

Yes there is parking at the top of the road, not the bottom but we're not talking ample parking so if the cars on the verges were forced off, you would find yourself parking up the hill around the block. I have a 1 year old and a four year old. The block has no lift and I live on the 1st floor. At the moment I along with the other family in our block have to negotiate the stairs and our children with shopping. This is doable when your car is nearish. If it is parked a hill (very steep) and block away it is not. Why should we have to factor this in our daily lives when the big houses have the somewhat luxury of parking on their drives. Should we have to do this because it spoils their view at the bottom of the hill that none of the houses are even near? Oh and I'm not saying that I can't manage without a car on a daily basis, I walk with the buggy, scooter etc everyday but it is the principle of the thing!

YANBU. We live in a similar area- on the road directly off ours people often park on the roads to walk to the station/into town etc. The council has started giving out parking tickets if the car is even slightly on the pavement/verge. The result now is everyone just double parks and it is a nightmare trying to squeeze my car down the road.

And in our cul de sac our neighbours have been having parking wars- next door neighbour has 3 kids and no driveway or garage, so she parks on the road directly outside the house. According to another neighbour (2 cars, massive driveway) this section is a turning circle and she shouldn't be allowed to park there as it makes it hard for her to get into her driveway (it doesn't).

Fun times...

Umm, I dont think there's anything wrong with the community trying improve the cosmetic look of their environment. You should probably have actually spoken to them to see what their agenda is, wires might be getting crossed etc. It might be something you can work on together to improve the facility available (although ime the more spaces you provide the more cars randomly turn up).

Obviously if they then say we're trying to get all the poor people who live in flats to stay away from our beautiful victorian mansions then YANBU.