To think this needs to be discussed?

[OTTMummA]

FIL is 60, has a muscle wasting disease, has had heart attacks, has a pacemaker, falls badly 3-4 times a year, and has done so again today.

He will not use a mobile, he will not use his dla for help with the house, which means that me and dh are helping more and more often, i am expecting again, and have mobility problems aswell, but cook for him, clean and try to keep the garden sorted.
We are moving slightly farther away from fil soon, not so far away that we can't still come and help, but it will mean not as much and maybe not as long.

He is a capable man, but he is no doubt getting worse each year, he has had a fall today whilst out, he is still not bad enough for a wheelchair, and can not use a stick because of grip problems, he is also very stubborn.

He wants to stay in his house he has lived in for over 20 yrs, i understand, i feel awful for him, but this is not realistic in the state it is.
He hoards and never tidies away, and dispite me helping, i can not usually make a dent in the mess of the house, i just try and keep the bathroom, toilets and kitchen clean, change bedding etc, when i have thrown papers/mess out before he has been very upset and moody about it.
So now i just clean around it.

Because of my own health problems, and having a pre schooler to look after as well i have told dh that i will not be doing this anymore until i have had the baby and have recovered,, i have suggested that we help find fil a professional cleaner ( he has had one before ) and that he can come here for diinners if he wishes, more than welcome.
DH hasn't really said anything about my suggestion,, or about my suggestion to sit down and talk with fil about sorting his house out, he just seems to be avoiding it, i have brought this subject up again and again, since we decided to move, and now after today feel like we have no option to talk about it.

I am trying to be realistic, fil will not be able to live in the house for much longer unless some changes are made, ie, wet room, stairlift, electronic bed, garden made low maintenence, i have made suggestions to fil aswell, all met with resistance and stubborness.
How on earth am i supposed to make movement on this, dh knows this all needs to happen, so does fil, although he has spoken about sheltered accomodation in the past, knowing him he won't acutally do it, apply, he just mentions it if we haven't seen him for a couple of days, i understand he feels vunerable, but there is only so much we can do, and i feel like he is trying to guilt us into not moving, even though we won't be much farther away.

I want fil to be happy in his home, i know he wants to stay in it for as long as possible, so why won't he listen to subtle hints, or suggestions?
And how do i make dh wake up and realise that we need to sort this now, when positive changes can still make a difference to life quality?

I know how tough this is so I really really feel for you.

My In Laws are in their own house and now in their 80's, my FIL in particular has been struggling with the stairs for a year now but refused to have a stair lift no matter how much we cajoled, persuaded and discussed it, because he said it was an admission of him being old.
We went out as a family for a drink and DFIL and DH were talking and then all of a sudden my DH flipped, said he was done with his parents because he was fed up of trying to help them and being ignored and he absolutely refused to watch them grind themselves into the ground and us watch and if they couldn't be arsed to help themselves he was done.

Two days later stairlift company was booked as they realised what it was doing to the family to watch them struggle. I'm not saying it was great at all, but for us it got the message through to them.

Maybe a similarly harsh (maybe not quite as far) tactic may work.

Social Services can come and assess him, but you can't force this unless he's deemed by a dr to be mentally incapable (Mental Capacity Act of somewhere or other)

YANBU to put your foot down about the level of care you're providing. Where is the line - would you bathe him? Wipe his bottom? Administer medication? Undergo training for tube feeding, use of manual handling equipment? Would he be comfortable with a close family member doing such intimate things? (these are honest questions, different people are ok with different things and I won't judge you for saying you can't do that)

Walking aids come in many varieties. He may be better off with a moulded grip, or one of the many varieties of frame (my gran has a folding 3wheeler with two handles) Age UK are an excellent place to get advice and support, or Occupational Therapy if you go down the SS route.

Hope this is useful :)

Does he have the money to make the necessary changes to the house, employ a cleaner etc?

Does he acknowledge the help you offer and provide? Could you use the new baby as an "excuse" for making changes?

60 is still relatively young, surely its up to him how much he wants to be a martyr

if you dont want to/cant help, dont. he will either suffer or do something about it. he isnt elderly or mentally impaired from what you say, so let him deal with it himself

Thats kind of why i have now stopped going to the house to clean and cook him food, it is a stuggle physically for me aswell and getting worse the bigger i get, but i just wanted him to see that we may not always be able to help to this extent IYSWIM, i am on day three of not going and have had messages from him about how to heat such and such up ( he can cook for himself, he just chooses not to ) and where is the baking tray.

Not once has he asked about me, ds or dh, dh has had to go up to the hospital today collect him and take him home, and told me he thinks he will have to stay overnight with him or see him again tomorrow, which is fine, but i am worried that if we were on holiday or ill ourselves and this happend ( it will happen again ) he wouldn't have anyone to help him.
To me it makes sense to get care or help for him now, even if it is just a little once, twice a week so that he has another form of support.
I am finding this very frustrating, and have found myself detatching slightly which feels odd.

dh has had to go up to the hospital today collect him and take him home, and told me he thinks he will have to stay overnight with him or see him again tomorrow

Is your DH onside with your current stance?

Is moving away anything to do with the pressure you feel you're under?

His condition makes him quite apathetic about the house, he doesn't call a plumber or electritian for instance, he will wait until a neighbour complains about his drains, or until we notice something on a visit, and then we have to phone them.
He went without doing any washing for over 2 weeks last year while we were visiting my family, the washing machine was broken, but didn't even bother to phone the warrenty people etc, so then we I had to spend 2 whole days sorting and cleaning his washing out on my days off, which he didn't seem bothered about either.

DH is aware, and agrees with me that fil needs help, and that something needs to be done with the house so it is livable for a disabled person.
But never actually talks to his dad about it, i usually take charge of the caring side, and last time fil fell badly, i ended up staying here and helping him get dressed, toilet etc because dh found it 'too much' to handle emotionally.

I can't physically do that anymore so dh has gone up to his, but i know he won't do much apart from sit there and watch sport with him, make him tea etc.

Moving has nothing to do with fil really, we didn't get the catchment school for ds , we need more room because of dc2 on the way and needed to move asap because the longer we leave it, the more stressful it will be whilst pregnant and preparing for school, it is only another 15/20 mins away from where we are now, not miles and miles away, but i do not drive, so am not willing to travel twice a day to sort fil out when he can afford a cleaner, and has a free bus pass so can come see us for dinner/whenever if he wishes to.

He had a cleaner before, but she quit because of the hoarding, we offered to help find a new one, but he refused, so i ended up going there more often and being monica gellars twin sister i ended up cleaning most of the time i was there.
He can afford to make all the changes listed, he offered me and dh some money towards a second property we were looking at, but turned it down, so i do know he can afford the changes.

"His condition makes him quite apathetic about the house"
Is it really his condition, or just his personality? He could just prefer to be 'looked after' by you, sees it as his right as a man.

There's been a lot about hoarding on TV lately, there always seems to be a psychological reason for hoarding, have you any idea of what his might be?

He is a traditional type of man, believes that women should do most cooking cleaning etc, although he is capable of doing most of the basic things, he won't cook much apart from heating up a quiche, really, thats it.
If i don't cook for him, he will live on sandwiches and scotch eggs.
He could do much more for himself, but won't so i guess he is just naturally a little lazy, However,, his apathy has got worse and worse, it isn't normal to leave repair work to the house until neighbours complain, his mother was a horder apparently, but died quite young from alzheimers.
I do think his condition makes him worse than normal tbh, but i think the hoarding is just learnt behaviour.
He sits and does crosswords, can have a conversation with him, doesn't act confused etc, so i don't think he has to worry about Alzheimers yet.

Well, IMO he is an adult who is capable of choosing how he lives. If he wants to live on sandwiches surrounded by detritus, it is his choice to make. He is happy to have you run round after him, but that is not a state of affairs that you should have to put up with. I would make it clear to him that you will no longer be his galley slave domestic help, and that he must take responsibility for it himself. He is mentally capable, he is financially capable, it is up to him.

And finally, I would feel no guilt in this matter. If he were genuinely incapable then I'm sure you would assist him (as you have in the past), but that really isn't the case here, is it?

I suppose you are right WYLI, but he will just keep getting worse, i don't want to leave getting him care that could help him a little bit until it is too late.
It isn't if he gets worse, he falls more every year, he will let his house fall down around him instead of maintaining it, fill it with rubbish and rot in it.

I don't want that for him, i am willing to help arrange things now, put actions into place now so we can avoid any major disasters, i am not willing to start changing my life about, stop working etc all of a sudden because he won't let us help now.

You sound amazing Op- I hope you manage to get some help soon too. You have been doing such a great job.

Then it is for your DH to talk to his father and be quite firm on the matter. You are right, getting things sorted now would be the best solution by far. But you can't do it without DH and FIL, and for as long as they are unwilling, your hands are tied.

I think that you should hand over to your husband and let him deal with it. Let him clean etc. At the moment - you can't do it. Why are you the one who appears to be responsible for it?

wow..op- you sound an amazing caring person...but (and ignore me if im off the mark) it seems as though he is milking your kindness.. you want the best for him, but he doesnt seem to want that..its his choice at the end of the day.