to sleep during my break on the night shift?

[TupperwareTwat]

After 5 years of getting away with working lates, earlies and long days only, I have this week started mandatory rotation on to night shifts.
The NHS trust I work for now requires day shift workers to do a minimum of 4 weeks of nights per year and vice versa for night shift workers.
I began my 12 hour shift at 8pm on Monday. At 2am the Sister asked me if I would like to go for my break (1 hour unpaid). I told her that I would like to go somewhere to sleep and she said that we are not allowed to sleep during our break in case anything happens and we are needed.
I asked her what we are supposed to do on our 'break'. She told me that she takes a book and reads for an hour.
I took a book and a blanket and my coat to the rest room, pushed 4 stand chairs together, led down and rested my eyeballs for an hour. The Sister came knocking on the door after an hour and I got up and staggered back to work while she went for her break. I felt relatively fantastic after my sleep.
When I told DH about this he said I should not have told her I was going to sleep on my break, and that I could get sacked for this.
I don't believe that my employers should even expect me to remain on the premises on my unpaid break!
Or am I being unreasonable?

Aboutlastnight - most doctors will be doing on call after or before their days work. Its a little different to shift work.

I'm a nurse and although u are not supposed to sleep on your break I think almost everyone does! Some wards even keep a spare mattress for nights. I think the prob u had was that u were on with the sister, I imagine if u were just working with regular night staff it may have been different. I think in the end it depends what area u work in and which staff u are on with. If u are the senior staff member on with inexperienced staff I don't think it's appropriate that u sleep. The same goes for somewhere like MAU where anything could happen. We aren't allowed to leave our clinical area for our break but if you are just napping in a chair I can't see the problem. However, if u are caught sleeping then I think it's disciplinary action at least. remember this is an unpaid break so in theory u should be able to do what u like

I work in OOH. They have not just worked a day shift. That said, they have to doze in their chairs, it's not like they go off to bed

In which case, I'd just be careful about not seeming too blatant about sleeping and catch a doze occasionally.
I can't remember who it was (Einstein?) who said that all you need to be rested is a short nap. He used to hold a metal object in his hand over a tray, and when it hit the tray, that's when he woke. Less than a few minutes was enough apparently. Perhaps a trick for you?

I work 12 hour nights in a care home with 4 other people on shift. We are paid for our 45 minute break and told officially that it is gross misconduct to sleep.

Difference is that they are paying us for our break though.

There is one member of staff whoever who can sleep standing up so she stands in a closed doorway with a cushion behind her head and dozes until she is bleeped by the residents on her area.

Until about 8 years ago, doctors used to work all day, all night then all the next day. You had to be allowed to try to sleep for a couple of hours at night to avoid dropping dead within a week. Now doctors mostly work shifts so this doesn't apply though there are still some senior doctors who do the old on-call system so are supposed to be asleep at night when not actually working (they get paid less than someone who is working a night shift).

NHS employers should not be dictating what any employee does in an unpaid break (within reason). If a nurse or doctor is expected to provide emergency cover during a break, she should be paid for it. An unpaid break is your own time and you should be free to do what you want with it.

As a student I was a cleaner in an old people's home. I was required to start at 6.00 and stay until 2.00 pm. It was a bit rubbish finding stuff to do, but one day I found an unused room. From that point onwards I used to take an alarm clock to work and nip off for an hour's nap every so often.

They said I was the best cleaner they'd ever had.

If you are NOT being paid for your break then I don't think they have the right to tell you what you can/ can't do. If you ARE being paid for it then they have a case. In future, if you intend to have a nap, set an alarm for at least 5 minutes befor eyou need to be back on shift and splash a lot of col water over your face to wake yourself up again (to avoid the staggering bit!)

The difference with doctors is that they don't get breaks. Some nights they might get an hours kip, other nights not at all. And the night shift is usually longer than 12 hours as they have to be around the next morning for ward round.

I also work for the NHS and night rotation has come in where I work. We do not get any breaks in a night shift of 10.45 hours. I hate night shifts with a passion

It's a sackable offence in my trust to be asleep on duty (even on your unpaid break), has been since an RMO went onto a ward to find one nurse asleep in staff room and the other had fallen asleep at the nurses station.

It has always seemed daft to me as when I worked nights I was a smoker so was standing outside A&E reading by torchlight during my breaks and nowhere near the ward, but hey ho. Sleeping on a break wouldn't work for me but I know a lot of people find it helps to have a kip.

YABU to want to choose what you do on your break but if it's against Trust policy YABVVVU and need to prepare yourself for trouble if you're determined to flout this rule.

I agree with Ithink.

I fundamentally disagree that if you even have the smallest dictation or supposition about how or where someone should spend their break, you should be paying them for it.
Otherwise, it should be just that, their own time. You should be able to go and practice walking a tightrope if you so wish, as long as you are back in time for your shift.
Which wally decided a half-way house like this?

By which I mean talk to the union etc and gird your loins for a fight. You would probably get a lot of support if you decided to challenge the policy. Can you go off the ward on your breaks? If so I don't really see how they have a leg to stand on but there might be some obscure fire regulation or something about sleeping on hospital property apart from in designated bedroom.

I also agree that nights are shit and have been even worse since the old school week of nights week of days off was abolished. At least when you did 7 you got used to it and were actually some use, then got a proper rest, not like now where you do 3 or 4 then have to be back on a late the same day!

Am ex nurse and ex RCN rep.

If you are not being paid for the time you can do what ever you want once you are fit for work afterwards.

So if you want to get changed and go to the pub thats fine, once you don't drink alcohol, go shopping, walk the dog. . .

Unless it is directly stated in your contract that you are not allowed to leave the grounds, and then they'd have uproar with all the smokers.

Ask yourself-

Would you feel happy to stand up in a Coroners Court and explain that you were asleep during your unpaid break if something happened during it even though you were on your break?

If you feel perfectly comfortable at the thought of admitting that and it possibly being reported (and twisted), then sleep.

But as an RMN, I wouldn't sleep. Yes, it's an unpaid break. No, it's maybe unfair. But life is often unfair. And I wouldn't risk it. Take it up with your union/nursing professional body if you want further guidance.

Nhs here too. Break is unpaid but it is gross misconduct to sleep on hospital premises apparently.

Makes no sense to me, if it's unpaid surely you can do what you wish

One ward I was on, the permanent night staff got cheekier and cheekier until they were either making up camp beds on the floors of counselling rooms or sleeping in the beds of patients on leave! They were dividing themselves up into groups of two and each group slept in shifts for 3 hours apiece.
Then one day the Mental Health Commission paid an unannounced visit. They opened one of the counselling room doors and a night staff member had failed to unmake the bed and put it all away before going off duty.

All hell broke loose. Give folks an inch..............

The rules about sleeping are coming to medical staff too. My current trust has a diktat that we must not sleep on shift.

We don't get any protected break times as there is never anyone else to cover us when we are on break so continue to get bleeped. Some nights you get a break and some it would be dangerous to patient to stop so you don't/can't.

I don't really want to be doing admin at 3am (which is what the managers say I should be doing if there is no urgent clinical work to do. After all I can hardly go and wake all the patients up to speak to as it is convenient for me).

The medical royal colleges have numerous documents showing that shift workers who are allowed to rest / lie down in quiet periods perform better than those who are not. Night worker is seriously detrimental to your health and the sooner trusts wake up to this the better.

The first night is always worse.

In addition, most junior doctors are contractually obliged to work 48 hours / week (and many work more) so an extra shift / week over and above nursing staff. Our transitions on and off nights are also (generally) worse than yours eg. long day Thursday, Nights Fri/Sat/Sun. BAck to work Tues AM would not be uncommon.

From a union point of view I feel that dictating what you do and do not do in your unpaid break time is unfair and potentially illegal. We get the same - when we locum the trusts remove money for 'breaks' which considering we usually get disturbed pretty constantly when on 'break' is a joke and if something urgent happens breaks get abandoned.

At the end of the day, your employer pays for your time. If they are not paying for your time, then they should have no say over what happens during the time they don't pay you for.

Its all bonkers, but people are letting employers get away with this completely unreasonable behaviour so I suppose they will just continue with it.

I think it just depends on the area you are in. My friends ward has a camp bed and covers for night shift staff and everyone on night shift gets at least an hours kip.

Tupperware's error might have been to ask Sister. Surely she would feel the need to be seen to tow the line.

12 hour shifts seem too long to me, the police do these shifts too. Presumably having longer shifts requires fewer staff numbers or something which saves Gov money. The old 3 shifts a day seemed healthier.

Imagine if this was someone posting that their loved one hadn't got emergency treatment quickly enough because a nurse was sleeping on her break and couldn't help colleagues because he or she was too sleepy. OK you can argue that the NHS trust should make sure that there are enough members if staff to cover breaks.effectively but the fact is that on a night shift in most if not all NHS trusts that just isn't the case.

If you are a nurse and could justify to the NMC why patient care was compromised because you were sleeping in your breaks, then go ahead and sleep. If you were completely away from the ward during.a break that wouls be different, but the fact that you are close enough to respond to an emergency and didn't because it was a break would be unjustifiable IMO. And I'm pretty sure the NMC may see it that way too.

They should pay them for the breaks if their are not enough staff to cover and they may be needed.

*there