to think that £4.50 per child is a lot of money

[cuteboots]

Ok so my sons school have arranged for a professional artist to come into the school to demonstrate some work and the kids can get involved. I just feel that this is a lot of money. They have said that you dont have to pay but if they dont get enough money it wont go ahead? It just feels like that at the mo and on a weekly basis we are getting letters like this asking for money. Am I being a bit unreasonable about this?

it's the day of the tightwads on this thread today!

It rather depends on your financial situation as to whether £4.50 is a lot of money or not. For people on very low incomes it might be all their bread and milk money for the week. Schools shouldn't make assumptions about these things.

Yes, £4.50 might be a lot to some families in terms of their income, and it's unreasonable to just expect families to have it spare at the drop of hat, completely agree.

But £4.50 each between 10 -15 kids means the artist isn't getting paid very much. The OP seems to feel it is too much. The artist has to make a living!

Are you active in your PTFA, have they been asked for any funding towards this. Our PTFA are always being asked to subsidise trips and in-school experiences, and will always do so if we can. However, we are not a bottomless pot, and we need sthe support of the parents at events etc to raise the money in the first place. TBH, £4.50 is not a lot knowing what I now know about the costs of people such as this coming into schools.
I must admit, tho, the people who often complain the most are those who don't support any fundraising, and talthough I am not in any position to comment whether you are like this, if you have a PTA, and support its events, you ca always ask them if any help can or already is being given with this activity.

no it isnt a lot but the problem is it wont just be the £4:50 there are endless requests for a couple of pounds here and there and it all adds up, but yes high school trips are much more, we have just paid £350 for ds1's and ds2 is in primary and we had to pay £130 for him to go on a residential trip, its annoying but it is what it is, but i do find the £1 for non uniform, the money for cakes/ice creams after school and all the pta things get wearing tbh. esp when you have more than one child at school and that £1 become more, next year i will have 3 in primary so £1 non uniform day will cost me £3 nad then money for all the other extras they come up with.

Well, for the thing you get for it (=visit from the artist and chance to join in) the price is very low. I would expect to pay double that.

However, if it were a mandatory expense then it would be too much because as it has been mentioned some people can't afford it, especially if it's a regular occurrence.

But it isn't mandatory is it? I assume the whole "you don't have to pay but" thing is precisely to enable those people who are on the breadline not to have to pay. It's a charge that's only supposed to apply to those who can afford to.

Personally, if I had the chance to send my child to something like this for only 4,50 I would jump at it.

Is the problem that you feel that even though you can't afford it you're being guilt tripped into it ?

Well maybe schools should just stop doing anything at all that might be a bit different or interesting if they have to ask parents to contribute? Children do cost money all the time - sometimes it's little bits and sometimes it's lots. No way round it unless you want them to sit in the house doing nothing all day.

YABU. I want my dd to have the best possible educational opportunities. I know that school funds are limited and cannot stretch to many "extras", but these extras really enrich and enhance the curriculum. Consequently, if I want dd to have the benefit of these extra opportunities, I must be prepared to pay for them. If I cannot afford them or do not consider them worthy of my contribution, then I don't have to pay. I accept that if too few parents pay, the school won't be able to afford the activity in question, and that will just be bad luck.

I get that there is an inherent inequality in the system, as schools in deprived areas are likely to offer fewer "extras" than those in leafy suburbs where the parents can afford to pay. But I cannot understand why anyone would object to individual schools asking for donations. Surely they just want to do the very best for the children in their care?

The alternative, I suppose, is that they stop asking, and the children miss out on all of the wonderful extra activities. But hey, at least the parents won't have to feel guilty about it!

They shouldn't stop doing interesting things - they should raise the money first and then book whatever activity it is they want to do.

How do you propose they raise the money? All the staff make a donation? Do a cake sale? Oh wait, that's annoying too, isn't it?

I would happily pay £4.50 - we have a school trip later this year which is £80 and next year one which is £300. It's not even high school!!!

It depends on what price you give creative opportunities. If you were to do something equivalent at home (without artist) then it would cost similar for materials I suspect.

I personally would pay as I want my dcs to have those opportunities.

I get really fed up with letters from the school asking for money. Personally I do pay because I don't want my son to feel left out or be excluded from something which the other kids are doing but it can be constant. The other week we got school photos which cost me £36 and then order forms for new uniforms came home. The uniforms with the school logo on are extortionate but again I don't want my son to be different from the other kids. It cost me £14 for two polo shirts (£7 each) and £12 per sweatshirt and then £22 for a school jacket and £10 for a tie so that's £58 for just a few items of uniform and obviously he'll need loads more things for the new term like shirts, trousers, gym clothes, shoes, bag etc.
The other week they went on a trip to a local heritage centre in our town and they wanted £6 per child plus £2 spending money! This place is about ten minutes walk from my house and I couldn't believe how much they wanted to take them there on the bus. We had to pay £4 for their easter party and £2 for their last ' come as you please day'. They have halloween parades in October which cost parents a fortune buying costumes and a few weeks ago the kids were learning about Romans and we had 2 days notice to make a roman costume as they had to come to school dressed up so I had to buy material to make this costume. It costs a fortune and so far my son is only 7!

@karmabeliever. But whatever the form of fundraising is, it will always come down to asking the parents to contribute in some way.

I don't really see the big difference between asking for non-mandatory payments for an artist's visit and asking parents to buy raffle tickets to raise funds for an artist's visit. I can remember my mum always complaining that the raffle tickets we brought home were a rip-off and that schools should just charge for the extra activities since the parents were paying in either case.

I expect the school is in a fairly affluent area so there is an expectation that parents can pay, and also pressure on the school to organise this sort of thing. At DS's first school, they only ever had free trips or sessions like this. It was a grade 3 Ofsted in a deprived area, and parents couldn't/wouldn't pay, so there were never opportunities like this organised as they knew they wouldn't get enough funds. We moved house when he got to juniors, and were asked pretty much every other week for payment of some sort. Much more expensive area, outstanding school, so lots of activities but of course you had to pay for it. It was a pain to have to start paying so much when I wasn't used to extra school costs, but the dc there definitely had a more enriched curriculum, so imo it was worth it.

I expect those parents complaining about these costs would never dream of sending their dc to a poor Ofsted school in a rough area, but perhaps if they did, they'd find themselves with fewer demands for money but would end up complaining about academic standards and behaviour!

Not saying the author shouldn't have come to the school. I just didn't want to feel pressured into buying the book.

It comes just a couple of months after some guy came to the school demonstrating tricks with a yo-yo. The message being never give up and try your best. Put another way, can I have £5 for a yo-yo sold in school. Obviously yes, everyone else had one.

Today I have happily forked out £4 to cover cost of coach for eductional trip.

I'm not tight, just have alot of expense and I'm unable to work so just DH income.

10-15 children in a class? Flipping heck not a normal school then.

Kirsty, I think the difference is that general fund raising wouldn't linked be to a specific event (so people wouldn't feel they have to give X amount or their child misses out). Depending on amounts raised, the school can then book events. So people could buy what they could afford at something like a school fete, or get a raffle ticket, but not feel under pressure to send in a specific amount on a set day or the promised activity doesn't go ahead.

Am not against fund raising to pay for nice extras, only the way that schools sometimes make a decision to do something and then inform parents that they are expected to pay for it. It's all very well saying it's a voluntary contribution, but parents who are struggling financially do feel under enormous pressure to give money they can't afford. No one wants to make their child feel awkward or reveal their financial difficulties to their children's school.

I think what I find sad about this is as an example of a wider issue. Schools in affluent areas can (not all do) have PTTAs that are able to raise v large amounts of money (20K ), meaning their children get better resources and experiences. They can also send out more of these ad hoc requests for money for this and that, because enough parents can and will pay. Schools in deprived areas may have excellent and well-motivated PTAs, but if the parents don't have the money who can they raise it from? Then there are all these ad hoc requests, which many parents will not be able to afford. Often schools in deprived areas will have pupils with lower attainment on entry, more additional needs and also find it harder to recruit and retain great staff. Of course it's not that black and white and many schools have mixed catchments, but it does strike me that it is an issue that must be terribly difficult to address . I don't want my kids to miss out on things and am glad we have an active PTA and will happily pay for virtually all things that come home. But, I do think that all children at all schools should have the same opportunities and that parents subsidising schools in this way hides the true cost of a good and varied education...

"For people on very low incomes it might be all their bread and milk money for the week"

.... and this is why schools say that it is not compulsory for parents to pay. Jeeze! I can understand the outrage if the school said that you had to pay or else your kid had to sit it out. Next you ladies will be going on about the school pressuring you by taking your kids photos and asking if you want to buy them. And that damned vicar pressuring you to buy raffle tickets to help those whinging orphans :o

Hmmm... but the trouble with general fundraising is that you then often end up with a few parents with a strong community ethic who end up paying for the whole school by running the PTA, organising the damn raffle and then buying 100 tickets themselves.

What do people think of everyone having to pay a compulsory amount per year at the start (September) to then cover the rest of the year for trips etc.. Iv no idea how much £20/£50 depending on where in country/ average prices of trips etc.. If it became the norm that everyone on day 1 back in September gave x amount would that work better?

People would have all year to put by that standard amount knowing it would have to be paid the following year.

Surely £50 a year for your child's extra opportunitys/ education etc would go quiet far and enable a lot more to happen.

Any opinions?

If there are only 10-15 children in the class, are we talking about a Private school ? Makes a difference to the school's expectations I@d have thought.

the pta are there to help fund things like this but unfortunately there is never a bottomless pit of money. also, ime people moan when there is fundraising going on. so if you want your dc to have experiences like this, if you can afford it, you should contribute in some way

forevergreek -I would much prefer that the govt funded schools (and the NHS etc) adequately via fair taxation, i.e. via income tax.