To think that this is not really normal behaviour for a 5yo?

[lecce]

I have had a really rough day with ds1 and would love to hear some views from others about whether his behaviour is fairly typical for a 5yo as I keep getting these niggles about him.

He just seems so incredibly negative and moany about every little thing. "It's not fair..." "You think you're the boss..." "I've got nothing/never get to play" and other similar complaints frequently come from him in the most whingy whine ever.

We mainly try to ignore/distract when this is happening and have most success with techniques that use humour eg, "Oh ds, stop laughing, it's not funny, you've got to put your toys away and that's so unfair.." said while he's crying about tidying up type stuff and it does work but it's getting wearing having to turn on the comedy routine several times a day - I just wish he'd stop it. Sometimes, like today, I just can't do it and end up shouting .

We went to the park this afternoon and he was (loosely) dressed as a Roman soldier with props. The park was packed and he spent the first 15 minutes or so trying to get random children to play Romans with him but none were interested. He spent the rest of the time wandering around by himself, (I was busy with ds2 (2.10) who needs watching as a is a nutter live-wire) chuntering on about being a Roman and cried on the way home because no one likes him. I tried explaining that maybe he could suggest more popular games, like chase, and that not all children will want to hear about Romans as soon as they have met him, but he just seems so sad.

I work ft so the weekends are all I get and I just feel terrible that we haven't really had a nice time today. Also, and this bit I am sure is unreasonable, I keep thinking that, because dh is a sahd but insists there is no problem, he is not picking up on ds's problems and is letting thngs slide - things I would be dealing with if I was at home. This is bollocks because dh is a great dad but I can't help feeling crap about the whole thing just now.

'often seems to have more success with slightly older children'

In a similar way to children who are emotionally less mature than their peers preferring to play with children younger than themselves, could your DS be a bit more emotionally mature than children his own age and that's why there's a mismatch between them?

hmm

well if a sit down and a "i'm really worried about ds, i just want to talk to someone to put my mind at rest" doesn't work then yes, i'd go and talk to the teacher alone

regardless of whether he thinks there is a problem or not, you DO, and it's not fair to make you worry when you could just go and talk it through with someone,.
you can point out that the bonus of him coming along is that he gets to give his side too? so he can say all the things he wants to about ds and why he thinks there is nothing wrong as well.

do you ever do school pick-up? if you do then i'd grab the teacher and ask for a quick word

He might be upset at your drop off and pick ups because he misses you?

Your description matches EXACTLY my friends son who is now 11 yo. My friend has worried about him for years. He does his own thing and has struggled to find friends with similar interests, always a bit of a loner.

Just because he doesn't conform to what we perceive to be 'normal' doesn't mean he has artistic tendencies.

We're all different.

*autistic

I nearly posted something similar about my DS, he just moans constantly. We had a lovely day out last weekend at a car show, there was loads of stuff for kids, but he was just sooo negative. If we asked him about the individual bits, he said he enjoyed them, but said he hated the car show.

His obsession is pirates, other kids come round and he tries to get them to play pirates, but they are never interested and want to play with his cars or something else.

I would have a word with your DS's teacher first if you're worried as I'm sure they will be able to help or put your mind to rest (that is if you're able to if you work FT. Worth taking a day off for just to speak to his teacher).

But I also wanted to say, I don't know if I'm over simplifying things, but I thought from your OP that your DS sounded quite normal. The thing that stood out for me was that maybe he feels as though he's lacking attention from you, especially if you work FT and have another little one to look after at the weekend? I'm not being judgmental because I am in the same position. My DD2 who is 4 and a half can get really moany, clingy, nasty to her sister, just generally annoying. I work FT but I had a day off on Wednesday and spent the whole morning dedicated to her - did a few things at home, took her out to the library and then a museum. She was a totally different girl. In the afternoon I couldn't dedicate much time to her and she went back to her old ways. Just wondering if it would help if you spent some one on one time with your DS at the weekend, totally dedicated to him??

My ds is 5 and totally into tsumanis. Not many kids will play tsumanis with him in the park either, or indeed know what a tsumani is. An interest in Romans is great, try and expand on it. He sounds totally normal to me, although perhaps in need of some more attention (1 on 1 ) from you, not easy when working fully time with a 2 year old I know x

Is he a bit exhausted being in reception? Exhaustion can effect how he copes socially. Is he Coming down with illness? Needing food? Attention?

Look at the national autistic society website for a tick box list if you want to check that out.

DD2 is forbidden from saying anything negative on the way home from school.

This ban has been in place for 5 years (she's 11)

She is the most dreadful whine.
She's utterly charming at school, lots of friends and a teachers dream, bright, hard working and helpful.

But she walks out the school gate and starts moaning about the most trivial things, drives me nuts.

She has a quirky dyslexic older sister, who finds making friends difficult and getting bullied easy. DD1 only ever complains when she really needs to and doesn't whinge.

So as far as I can see whining has nothing to do with what life throws at you and everything to do with personality.

DD1 is a cheerful, secure soul and DD2 needs a constant supply of attention and whining is one of her less pleasant ways of getting it.

My 6 yo ds was very, very negative between age 2 and 6. He is just growing o ut of it now. it was exhausting as nothing we ever did was good enough... He could have a day at a theme park, macdonalds and still whine on the way home that it was so unfair, he didn't get to go on one ride our we didn't buy an ice cream...

It does stop! He is finally starting to understand when we have made an effort to entertain him and has started thanking us and acting grateful.

Could your son be gifted... The roman obsession sounds like it. I think some of my son's problems stemmed from feeling a bit out of place as most of his kindergarten class act a lot younger than him. Not sure if it is linked, but maybe that could be why your son find it hard to make friends. Mine is doing a lot better socially this year. Good luck!

Your DS sounds very similar to how mine was around the same age. In fact, he was assessed twice, aged 3 and 6 wrt ASD, but the paediatricians wouldn't diagnose or rule it out! My own feeling now is that he definitely has some tendencies, but not ASD. I often have to remind him to make eye contact and look at someone when talking and occasionally, I bluntly tell him he is being weird, when he is. It sounds mean, but sometimes it's helpful to him and it makes him realise he doesn't want others to laugh at him, so he stops the behaviour (hope that makes sense!)

He is still somewhat intense and prone to obsessions aged 9, and can be incredibly negative, but he is much less full on. He shows interest and empathy in peers more than adults now, he likes to conform to the school routine and get praise for it, he uses his imagination well, he is beginning to understand and use sarcasm, and he tries to make small talk, even when he would much rather be telling you facts about Charles the second!

I think it's easier as they get older, as more 9 year olds are interested in history, whereas you don't get many 4 and 5 year olds more interested in the Romans, Egyptians and Vikings than in the world around them! I'm a massive history fan too, but I was perplexed about how to explain about the Vikings to a 4 year old! Foster his interest by taking him to museums, exhibitions and English Heritage and National Trust properties, but don't let the obsessions take over. Keep ensuring he does more every day things like going to the park, swimming lessons and watching a popular (with his age range) tv programme too.

OP, some great advice given already.

I just wanted to offer one little gem. Your son shouts ' you think you're the boss'. Your response in a calm, smiley way, 'I am'.......then walk away and do something else :)

Joking aside I do think children can go through phases but I do think if you are worried you should talk to someone ( teacher/G.P.) otherwise you will continue to worry regardless. At least if you speak to someone and there is an agreement that there is something more going on, positive steps can be taken tp get both you and him the appropriate suport . x

Thank you for all the replies. Happy to report that we have had a much better day today. Sometimes I wonder if I take a while to get used to them again, making Sundays easier than Saturdays.

I think all the people who mentioned spending more one-to-one time with him could well have a very good point as it doesn't happen much at all and, thinking about it, the full-on attention we do get is me listening to him read, rather than fun stuff.

I really don't think he is gifted, though I do think he is 'bright', whatever that means. Tbh, he spoke very fluently very early and I suppose we did find ourselves thinking, "wow, he's a genius!" but, of course, his peers have mainly caught him up now and, aside ffrom his interests, he doesn't seem that different from his peers from what I can tell. At school he has just started level 5 reading books so pretty good but certainly not through the roof. I'm not sure about maths - he has an understanding of 10s, 100s etc but is often stumped by stuff like 8+4 .

Anyway, it's good to hear about all these other 'quirky' children who have progressed well. I must say, despite his historical interests (Vikings, Ancient Egypt and dinosaurs all thrill him) he also likes other more mainstream stuff - he can't wait for Ice Age 4 to come out and he only got into the Egypt thing after seeing a mummy on Scooby Doo!

I am going to have a frank chat with his teacher this week and see what she thinks.

I think that you need a combination of giving him lots of one to one attention, and fun,and being quite strict about the whining.
He sounds like he feels insecure, and you need to make him certain that you love him and like him (two very different things).
I feel your pain-I have a child the same age who is very bright and quite hard work, but you mustn't let any guilt about working FT (if you have any) affect the way you deal with him.

Your son sounds pretty normal to me.....can I just say that I LOVE his 'Roman' outfit - makes me smile to myself just thinking about him in the park with his little chicken leg, frying pan and backpack!

Hope it all goes well, lecce.

He sounds normal to me. Why has he such a small class? It is a very small pool for friends. He just sounds lonely.

He sounds totally normal to me. DD1 spent yesterday morning in tears as she was "so bored" (she's 7) but was a child transformed when I took her to the playground. DD2 was also so whingey on Saturday that I thought I would have to take 15 minutes out to walk around the block as they were both driving me MAAAAAd.(she is 5). Is he in reception or year 1? Five seems to be the beginning of better social skills but the levels vary hugely and if your ds is very articulate then he will find friendships harder at the moment as a lot of the other boys will be busy just doing very physical stuff. My elder dd was super-articulate at 5, and really strugged to find other children who "got" her, but now she is seven it is much easier as they are all chatty. She is playing with boys now, whereas at 5 she found them a bit scary as they didn't talk, just charged about. Now DD2 is five,as of this week, and I can see that it is just a stage to navigate, they are learning how to make friends and engage in a slightly more sophisticated way.
Is your DS maybe less than happy at school?
I agree about more one on one time with him. I don't manage it enough, but even a little bit of time alone with me where I really properly focus on her, makes each of my daughters really glow with happiness.

My DS is very wilful, bless him. Like you I work FT and hate the fact that weekend can be a battle of wills. think its normal

My DD has been a lot like that. I want to say she's finally grown out of it (7 1/2 now), but dressing up in a costume no one else understands or is interested in is something she did a lot (like wear a dog costume to an ice skating party and then refuse to skate and then have a tantrum because no one would play with her off the ice - that was 4 months ago). Even 2 months ago she got funny in a group situation with kids (again dressing up like a dog). I would say it's 'normal' if my DD is ' normal' but what is 'normal' ? Anyway I think he might outgrow this phase.

The moaning, too, my DD was exactly like that. It's pretty much just the last month or so she's settled down and can see reason. She's suddenly more patient, and even sort of did some cleaning in her room today.