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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say this to FIL?

56 replies

MushroomMagee · 12/05/2012 17:48

I have no idea whether IABU or not, I think that my view is possibly clouded by past events so I wanted a few opinions... Sorry if its long - there is a bit of a back story!

FIL is extremely rich (think cash+assets 10mil at least) he is also very manipulative, controlling (and he uses his money to try and do this) and extremely secretive.
We have had issues with him before, a year ago he offered us some money towards our wedding and then several months later when we had spent it, demanded it back because we decided to do something he didn't agree with. He also at that point said if we didn't go with what he said he wouldn't come to the wedding etc etc.
He used to help us out a bit financially and honestly it was the most stressful period of my life - he used it as a stick to beat us with constantly, and attempted to control the decisions we made. Even now, he wants a lot of info on our finances which we are not prepared to give e.g. how much our rent is, how much we earn etc.
He also has rather toxic views in regard to women, he thinks they can't be trusted and are all basically gold diggers. He behaved rather appallingly towards my MIL (they were unmarried) when they separated a few years ago. He has in the past when helping us financially refused to have me in the room when discussing it (despite it being obvious that I would at some point have to know!) and other similar things. To cut a long story short - I'm not his biggest fan.

Here's the tricky thing. He wants to put some money from a trust fund into an account for DD (who is 2.10). It would I imagine be quite a substantial amount each year, probably around 7k or so, and he would use her tax allowance in doing so. He says he would like this to be used for her benefit for things like swimming lessons, school trips or school fees at a private school etc rather than as a savings account for when she's older. I don't know but I suspect he may have set one of these up for her already. Obviously, DH and I would have to sign off on this one as we would be the ones that had to sign the tax return to let him use her allowance.

The issue we have with it is that he wants to be the signatory on the account along with DH. So anything that came out of it would have to run past him. The idea of having to ok the decisions we make is frankly rather repulsive, as is the idea that we would use it for anything other than her best interests and so need to be checked up on by him. I think it also puts us in a very vulnerable position, imagine dd is doing termly music lessons or something, FIL falls out with us and refuses to sign off on the money - how would we explain that? I think DH and I wouldn't be able to use the money and would have to just leave it in the account. Is that selfish though? Should we get over our own awkwardness for DD's benefit? And whilst we can pay for bits and pieces the money would no doubt be of great advantage to her.
My other thought is that if we are going to just leave it in the account then I would really rather just not accept it - it will still feel as if we are entangled with him then, and I worry that if something comes up (expensive trip, private tutoring if she's behind or something) we'll be tempted to try and use the money and I find the idea of going to FIL like that unbearable. Ultimately when she gets to 18 or so, I really doubt she will have any trouble financially - but who are we to deny her a rather large lump sum?
FIL has a very warped view of what would be to DD's best advantage - private school fees would be fine, swimming lessons or music lessons I imagine we would have to fight tooth and nail for.

I'm kind of thinking that we should say to FIL that if he wants to give DD the money that would be very appreciated and we will use it for things which will give her the most benefit but that we need to be the signatories on the account. Otherwise to pay the money into his own account and use it to buy her what he see's fit. AIBU?

OP posts:
SchoolsNightmare · 12/05/2012 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DontmindifIdo · 12/05/2012 17:55

I wouldn't accept his money with conditions now. You should arrange your lives and DDs so you don't need his money, so if you can't afford private education, you don't send her, if you can't afford music lessons, she doesn't have them. If he wants to put money in an account for her, give him the details of an account you have already set up for her (with you and DH being the only signatories), if he doesn't want to do that, he doesn't have to.

You know he'll let you get in a situation where you sign up for something like private school then need to access the money at regular intervals, at which point you'll have to dance to his tune to get it.

He only can use his money to control you and your DD if you let him, stand on your own two feet and he'll have to learn his money isn't going to buy him influence. You know if you give him the option, he'll try to control you, so don't give him the option.

CallMeAl · 12/05/2012 17:56

you could just stop taking money from him and control your own lives?

gonerogue · 12/05/2012 17:57

I would definitely say That you and your DH are the best options for signatories, and you need to impress this on your FIL.

You really don't need to be stressing about what he thinks of your decisions re parenting your child, so if he doesn't agree to this I would not accept as allowing someone that level of control over me / my DCs wouldn't sit well with me.

DairyNips · 12/05/2012 17:59

YANBU He will use it to try and control family decisions over your DD. I can imagine it being very stressful. Your suggestions are better.

OTTMummA · 12/05/2012 17:59

I think what you have come up with is a great solution, i wouldn't ever be put in this postion.
It is as if he just wants to find a way to control you, he sounds very strange, dispite his apparent generosity.
If you dd is not in need of anything in particular then i would rather keep him out of what classes you choose to put her in.
He put money in a seperate account that has nothing to do with you or dh if he wishes, but i wouldn't let someone have that amount of control.

I think children are dealt a disservice when they are handed over large amounts of money at a young age anyway, wether they can use it or not.
If it were me, i would probably tell him we don't want or need any help with regards to dd, her education or activities, then if he wants to set her up after he is gone, then he can do what he likes.

DPrince · 12/05/2012 18:00

I agree with call. My granddad is like this. All my cousins have borrowed of him and he holds over all of them. Me and my brother refuse to be in that position. No matter how desperate dh and i have been (and we have been very desperate) I have never once taken money from him.

DairyNips · 12/05/2012 18:00

I have to say also, if it were me I wouldn't accept any money at all. It sounds like any money he gives you comes with 'conditions' and, as little money as we have, I couldn't live that way.

MushroomMagee · 12/05/2012 18:01

Thank you schools - I can completely imagine that scenario. We would have to justify everything.

DontmindifIdo: I agree with you. But is that unfair on DD? She has the option to go / do those things in reality - its just that its a choice her parents weren't comfortable with. Knowing that there will be times we have to say no to things she wants when in reality she could have them - makes me feel pretty rubbish. And if in 16 years time she finds out we've made this decision, I don't want her to think we made a decision that disadvantages her to make our own lives easier?

CallMeAl: We don't take any money from him. The difficulty is: when he offers something, particularly when its for DD it can be hard to justify.

OP posts:
Eglu · 12/05/2012 18:01

I most certainly wouldn't take his money for DD. It will be awful for you. Do not let him control you DDs life the way he has controlled yours.

MushroomMagee · 12/05/2012 18:03

Sorry x-posted with all the responses. Thanks for your thoughts :) I really appreciate knowing I'm not just acting out of... past resentments.

What about DH's suggestion? Let him pay it into the account and don't touch it?

OP posts:
Lovetats · 12/05/2012 18:03

Don't do it, as it stands. The tension would be unbearable. If he wants to buy her something and you agree with it, great - otherwise, you will be controlled by this man for the next 16 years.

If he doesn't agree for you to be in control of the money, then politely decline. I speak from experience.

MagicHouse · 12/05/2012 18:06

YANBU.

Like you say, if he want to offer to buy dd things then he can. He doesn't need to set up an account with conditions on it. I think this is asking for problems. It sounds as if he would abuse this, and use it to manipulate you into spending it as he sees fit - which could include huge decisions, e.g. on schooling, which should be your decision, not his. What if you disagreed on a choice of school? You could be in a difficult position, and feel very pressured into going with his choice, simply because he is paying for it. And then, as you say - what if you fell out, and he pulled the money - something you already have experience of?

I would distance myself from his money if I were you. Or else suggest he sets up some sort of trust fund, that she can access when she is old enough, e.g. in her twenties.

SpeckleDust · 12/05/2012 18:06

My immediate thought was that your FIL was manipulative to use your DD's tax free saving allowance to his own advantage.....and may just demand the money back if and when he felt like it.

YANBU and I think your plan is a suitable one for the situation.

5318008 · 12/05/2012 18:08

just say no

he will want to have the last word and control over when and what you spend the money on

so what if he is rolling in money, doesn't mean to say you should take it

he already has form in dictating after giving you money

be adults, make your own life

DontmindifIdo · 12/05/2012 18:11

It's not unfair on DD, it would be more unfair if she gets caught in the middle of the fight between you, it would be her that had to move schools if the fee money wasn't forthcoming, give up music lessons etc. You might find yourself having to send her to a school you do'nt think is the best for her.

Draw a line, remember, if he is giving the money to benefit your DD, then he'll just give it to you, if he's doing it to control you, then he'll add conditions - so you know that he wants the option of controlling what happens/stopping you use the money in the future, that's the only reason he could want to be a signatory. He's intending to pull the sort of stunt you fear, you know it's going to happen at some point if he won't just give the money to you.

DPrince · 12/05/2012 18:11

I'd say no tbh. At all. Imagine if he saves money and pays for private school. What's to stop him refusing to pay if you don't do as he wants. Even if he spends it on what he thinks it important, he could still have a hold over you.

RandomMess · 12/05/2012 18:27

I would so no thank you to the money at all, seems like it's all a bit of a tax benefit for him and he will absolutely use it to try and control dh and dd forever and a day.

Birdsgottafly · 12/05/2012 18:37

There is that level of money on my BIL's side of the family. I see it cause nothing but trouble and spoil what should be happy events, Birthdays, Christmas etc.

It's helped to end two marriages. I don't think that it is worth it, unless life saving treatment is needed, it's better to be independant.

DPrince · 12/05/2012 18:40

Also if you say yes, in any circumstance, you are putting dd under his control. Until he is dead.

Journey · 12/05/2012 18:40

In many ways you don't have a problem at all. Stop accepting money from him and your problem is solved.

I'd accept the money from him for your dd. I wouldn't use it for anything you couldn't afford so if he doesn't agree to signing a sum off you can say okay and just pay whatever it is yourself. If you rely on the money for something for her then that is when a problem could occur. If he keeps saying no to things then she will just have a nice lump sum when she is older so I don't see how you can lose.

claudedebussy · 12/05/2012 18:45

'when he offers something, particularly when its for DD it can be hard to justify'

in my book it's all the more reason to say no! you don't feel comfortable with it. he would be an absolute nightmare and it wouldn't be worth it. your dd will already have all she needs: loving, supportive parents who try to do the best for her. don't let this toxic influence come into your lives. you would regret it deeply.

you know he uses money to control. haha signatory! pththth just another manipulative scheme.

think about it.

he wants to use her tax allowance? how convenient to get a huge say in how you spend it.

if he really had your dd's best interests at heart, he'd just give you the money. or pay the school bill and say nothing further. none of these weird ideas should come into it.

OTTMummA · 12/05/2012 18:48

Knowing that there will be times we have to say no to things she wants when in reality she could have them - makes me feel pretty rubbish. And if in 16 years time she finds out we've made this decision, I don't want her to think we made a decision that disadvantages her to make our own lives easier?

saying no to children is part of parenting, no child should have something all the time, just because they could, well thats my opinion!
Your daughter is very unlikely to end up a squillionaire, so she should learn that not everything comes to you on a silver platter with no effort just because,,,
How would she know about this decision? are you planning on announcing on her 18th birthday, "well darling you could of had a pony or a jag, but we really couldn't be arsed with being beholden to your grandpapa! enjoy your lambrini! " Hmm
Raise her right and she will respect the fact you did it on your own, and know that her grandad is a manipulative schemer.

riksti · 12/05/2012 19:13

Just wanted to chime in on the tax aspect. He doesn't actually benefit from her allowance. I'm assuming he has set up a trust and put money in it for inheritance tax purposes. This means the money doesn't belong to him, although he can control it. And this money is earning interest for the trust, which can be paid to your daughter's account and would be taxable as your daughter's income, I.e. First £8,100 would be tax free. The money would actually belong to your daughter and he can't legally have it back. Obviously he can be signatory to the account and thereby still have some sort of control over the money. But if two signatories are needed to get money out and your husband (being the other one) refuses to sign for it the money would be there waiting for for your daughter to turn 18.

SchoolsNightmare · 12/05/2012 19:19

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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