To think I have f*cked up and the nursery is shite?

[LittleMilla]

Went for second 'settling in' session today and it was BEDLAM. I'd hoped to leave DS for the morning - they would put him down for a nap at about 9:30am and I would come back to get him at midday.

However, there were kids crying all over the place, they were trying to settle three children and so I simply ended up staying so that DS wouldn't be sat on his own crying. Most of the other kids don't seem to self settle, although they're the same age as DS (about 12 mo).

I decided to try and put DS down in the end as it was almost 10 before things settled down enough. And he was by then over-tired and challenging to put down.

I knew he prob wouldn't sleep for long so said i'd stay on site in the staff room. But asked that they give him some lunch and basically keep him going for as long as he was happy. They came and got me at about 11:30am. But when I got down there he was fine - hadn't eaten much but seemed happy enough. They had said he'd got 'unsettled' when he wanted to get down from his high chair...which I would imagine most one year olds would!

He's only meant to be doing two days a week - from about 9am until 4pm. I've really struggled to find anywhere that has a decent ofstead rating and is close to the new house we're buying. And that obviously has space - due to my working situation only recently being sorted, I have had to try and get somewhere quickly.

Argh, have I completely fucked this up? Or does this sound like pretty normal nursery situation for a room full of one year olds? Oh, and staffing in the room also seems quite haphazard, with people skipping in and out constantly.

I think it's natural to be worried about the quality of care your child receives away from you. All of the children will settle into the routine after a while, and be supported to do so. Most staff in nurseries do like the kids, and will do their best to make them happy. I like nurseries better as i worry that with a childminder they may just watch tv and go to Tesco, rather than learning the social skills etc. I wouldn't worry about the sleep thing - they'll stagger the sleep times to get the needy ones down at different times from the others - your dc won't miss out. I'd personally explain to them that you are feeling neurotic first time mum- ish, and ask them to be kind enough to let you pop in and sit in the staff room for 20mins after drop off/ before pick up a few times (maybe after a two week period where your dc settles) to reassure yourself. I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone who has by dcs, and experience has repeatedly proven my worries wrong.

Ha ha - at home DD is fed to sleep and then naps next to me. Goes in her cot fine at night but refuses for naps. She is only at nursery 2 mornings and I didn't expect her to sleep however after her first morning her key worker told me that she put her head down on the floor like she was sleepy, so they moved her to a sleep mat and she went to sleep!

Now she takes herself over to the quiet area when she is tired and they lie her down and she goes to sleep happily - I have watched from the window.

I bought a sleep mat for home and put it down.. Not a chance!

OK, so I am being velly naive on the sleep thing. My DS has been a swine re:sleep since he was born and I had been congratulating myself on the fact that he now slept for longer than 40 mins in the daytime. I actually assumed (having witnessed it with most of my friends in fairness) that one year old babies tended to go off to sleep on their own. Clearly this isn't the case.

DS doesn't go off without any sort of fuss. But he normally has a little whinge, i might have to pop back in for another cuddle. But 95% ofthe time he goes down awake.

Just getting worried that he might go backwards at nursery, if it's 'normal' to go mental at bedtime!! Ha.

It could've been a bad day so I ought to give it a couple of goes before making a decision.

Do you feel that your DS will enjoy being at the nursery and will be well cared for and happy there?

If yes, carry on. If you have the slightest doubt, don't send him again.

I had to send DD to nursery at 10months as I returned to work. She did 2 half days and was still having a morning nap. It took her 2 months before she settled to a point that I knew she was happy but at no stage did I ever think that she would be left to cry/unhappy/in chaos. The ratio was 2:1 and yes, she was rocked to sleep (even though we didn't do this at home).

Now she is 16 months she loves it there. The toddler room is chaos! I am glad we carried on, as she is really sociable.

In your situation I would give it a couple more sessions but if it appeared the same I wouldn't leave your DS. I would be worried about the level of care he would get.

Thank you littlepie.

AIBU to NOT want DS rocked off? We worked quite hard to get him sleeping well and I'd really like this to carry on. I know from experience that once he's rocked once, he starts wanting it more (understandably) and at over 1.5st my back or patience isn't up for that!

Having slept on it, I think I was just taken aback by the craziness of the whole place. I do think that it's probably caused by so many settling in at once, but I will ask next week about staffing numbers in the room as I don't like the idea of so many floating staff.

I think you should give it a chance as sometimes there are days like that at a nursery. We only take children 2 years plus at mine and if there are 1 or 2 unsettled children it can have a chaotic feel but 99.9% of the time it is a lovely calm environment and children settle really well.

Under 2's is a different story as of course they cry more for a number of reasons. At the nurseries I know it would never be a criteria to only take children who self-settled, many children don't at this age and nursery staff should be more than capable of doing this.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the Ofsted report, as long as it is satisfactory and above and there are no safety issues raised I wouldn't worry. We are only rated a good but the pre-school round the corner is outstanding and the year R teachers who work in the school attached wouldn't send their DCs there and they come to us as it really isn't a nice pre-school but apparently ticks all the 'Ofsted boxes'.

Personally I would ask more questions around how many staff are on at any one time etc, who is there every day and stuff like that. I believe the ratio is 1:3 legally but most nurseries have 1:2 for under 1's (it may be 1:2 legally for that age?). They should be able to settle the children eventually so it may be worth asking what they will do when you don't stay.

At the end of the day if you give it a chance and it doesn't work out then go with your instinct, it doesn't mean other nurseries won't be ok though.

x posts - I would be cross if I had worked hard to ensure DCs self settled and would definitely NOT want them rocked to sleep. They should be willing to keep on with any normal routine as much as possible!

Its like saying that your 2 year old is in the middle of potty training but the pre-school sticks them in a pull up for ease - would not be acceptable!

Oh, and 12 month old babies don't need to play with children their own age!

If you're doing unpaid work with your step mother, can't you take him with you?

IME sleeping patterns and behaviour patterns at nursery can bear little resemblance to those at home... I was really worried about DS sleeping at nursery as he was a real pain at home, but in the end it turns out he slept really well there, settled with little fuss until he was about 18mths and then sat quietly playing when the others napped after that, whilst at home in that period we couldn't get him to sleep for love nor money. Even if we copied nursery's routine.
He's also a little angel at nursery and saves being naughty for his parents. First time he did a melt down tantrum with me at nursery the NN's were really shocked. Kids behave very differently with their parents around so it might be better if you actually left the building for the next few times.... It's not going to cause long term harm but it will mean that you'll get a better idea of how he'll actually be.
My DS's nursery is always a bit chaotic first thing but over the years (he's been there from 7mths he's now nearly 4) when I've popped in un announced to pick up early/go to dentist/Drs etc all the kids have been fine, happy and although it's often chaotic the kids are all looked after and I'm rather envious of the days they have. He's developed well there, he's made loads of friends and FWIW I don't think it has damaged our relationship with him at all (I know a lot of people have reservations about nurseries). He's happy, confident, cheeky and loving, I couldn't ask for more.

When I was a baby room supervisor, we did the routine which mum and dad did. Some of our babies would go to sleep in their own pram and zonk out for over 2 hours. Others would need a bit of comfort and only sleep for 30 minutes. Babies are all different just like our parenting is different. Sometimes you get an influx of babies who are settling together and it can be hectic but they soon settle and routine works in the room with good staff knowing their babies.

We once had a parent go mad because in the nursery we had a case of mumps and a case of measles from children who' had the MMR. This parent was demanding to know why we accepted children who hadn't been vaccinated. She soon stopped when I pointed out her 11 month old didn't have the MMR. No other child caught either illness but it was a complete shock that both children had mumps or measles.

I understand your worries I hated leaving my ds at nursery when he was 15 months- again for 2 shortish days like you. I found the weeks when there were new starters always seemed chaotic as the crying usually seemed to set them all off- however the nursery we were at didn't take more than one new start a day- the first couple of weeks I had to bring ds in on odd days to get settled as there was a couple of other new starts.
It wasn't even a brilliant nursery and I ended up taking him somewhere else. Keep him there and see how it goes.

As for sleeping my ds never self settled because he never wanted to sleep- 20 mins during the day was all he took from he was a baby. The nursery ladies told me they'd sort him out- within 3 weeks they'd given up. They used to put him and another non sleeper in a buggy to see if they'd sleep or just take a rest.
When he moved to his new nursery just before he was 2 they didn't even bother with the nap as he told them he didn't want it. Wee bugger still doesn't need much sleep.

I think that where there is a collection of babies being dropped off, there is likely to be some crying. They set each other off. And separation anxiety can be high around the 12-month mark.

Ultimately it's up to you and how you feel about it. Is there enough right about the situation to persevere for a bit? They do need time to get used to the change. And probably better if you go after a few mins so your ds doesn't get confused.

You should feel free to talk to the teacher/manager about what you can expect with regard to settling etc. If they are open, honest and kind, that is a good sign.

didnt a nursry worker on the FIL thread say they dont bother to settle them or something, they just leave them to cry? Then lie to the parents about it? to harden the babies up as they wont be getting that one on one from mum?

I think it's unreasonable to tell the nursery they can't rock your baby. You've go to trust them to look after him or there's just no point. If you don't trust them to do what they think is best if he's upset, don't send him.

My own experience is that nursery days are different. When my dd started she was great at sleeping at home, just chucked her in the cot, but notorious at nursery for being unable to go to sleep. Now, she's the star sleeper at nursery, but wants fed to sleep at home. Go figure.

As a CM I find it really offensive that you think with a childminder children just 'watch TV and go to Tesco'.

We're required to work to the EYFS and provide a range of activities and experiences in the same way that nurseries are and to observe and record progress in the same way. We're inspected and graded by the same Ofsted criteria. There may be a place for a little educational TV occasionally, or to go to the shop and count out the 5 tomatoes needed for lunch, but that's not all there is to childminders.

As an ex childminder I also am offended by your comment. TV only came on rarely in my house if the children were exhausted or needed something to calm them down and even then it would be something appropriate and only for a short time.
Yes we may pop into the local shop to get milk or bread but not to do a big shop - in fact Childminders are not allowed to take their mindees on a long shopping trip regularly. And by the same token, taking a child to the shop can be educational if you are helping them learn how to buy things, counting, recognising new foods, social interaction with other adults etc etc. Its all about how it is approached and that very much depends on the individual looking after your child.
I would also say that a CM will typically visit lots of playgroups which have different activities so that your child would have interaction with other children and would probably visit the park and other fun days out that they would not necessarily get in a nursery.
It isn't all bad you know?

A self settling baby... what mythical creature is that? I've got three children with not a self settler amongst them.
It's not the question you asked, but I wouldn't put my child in any nursery to do unpaid work.

Sorry op but I have worked in nuserys and what do you expect

"kids crying all over the place"

Unless you have one to one ratios when dealing with small babies are just

Nusries are competivene environments that is why they are very stutible for babies as its basically who crys the loudest ad longest gets the attention, childminders and nannies are a more sutible enviorment for a baby

If the ratio is 1 to 3 and all 3 are crying their is only so much you can do

Often private nurseries have very young staff often lots of girls on work placements and students as they are free and also the wages are very low Also the girls are working from 8-6:30 almost all year round

You pay peanuts you get monkeys

Childminders on the other hand usually have had their own children, have very small numbers of children usually can only ever have one baby. Under 1 and are not forcing the children to nap at times to suit them unlike day nurseries

Lego...watch TV and go to Tesco? WATCH TV AND GO TO BLOODY TESCO?!??????????? Jesus wept. Yes, that's why I did a 4 week childcare course, a First Aid course and a 50 page application form so I could register to 'Watch TV and Go to Tesco'. Do you realise the harm you do to hardworking childminders when you spout that kind of ill informed bollocks in a public forum?

I've used a nursery and a childminder. I loved my dcs nursery and they still ask to go visit in school holidays. For practical reasons, CM is now best option for me and have found one I am very happy with. Chose nursery and CM on gut instinct, not Ofsted, so to answer OP, if you don't feel happy leaving your child there, I would look for an alternative

I am doing unpaid work to stop me going completely insane. Pre-DS I had a pretty intense job and whilst i've decided that I won't go back to corporate world, I need to do something to keep me sane. The person I am wokring for is covering childcare costs.

I think I will give it a month and see where we're at. I'll simultaniously (sp?) look at a CM as I hadn't given it much thought - I was considering going back to work FT and getting a nanny. But this other option has come about quickly, which is why I was rushed to get him somewhere.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Just to update: today was first 'proper' day. Dropped DS off at 9am and he'd fallen sleep in buggy on the way there. Agreed to pick him up at 2pm.

Called ahead before leaving and he was on the cusp of nodding off so agreed they'd call me back. Phoned 15 mins later to say he was struggling so to come.

Arrived and the little lamb was zonked out on cushions in the quiet area. Had a chance to talk to lady he's chosen as his 'key worker' who has totally reassured me. Said that when they're new and settling she won't let them cry like he might at home, just wants him to feel secure with her. She feels that quickly he will feel happy and secure and will sleep there as he does at home.

She said (without any prompting from me) that some of the little ones have stronger personalities, but they try very hard not to lavish attention only on those that shout the loudest. Instead, they try not to 'reward' negative attnetion grabbing, but won't ever leave them upset IYSWIM.

So in summary, I feel much happier. He's picked the lady that I was most drawn to anyway. She a bit older (mid-40s?) and just seems very caring and already fond of DS - talking about his personality in a way that makes me think they are bonding well.

DS woke from his sleep chuffed to bits to see me. But also give the lady a cheeky and flirty smile, which makes me think he's happy enough.

Roll on next week...

Thanks all for thoughtful replues last week x

Glad to hear things went well. It will be a bit of a change for both of you, but sure you will both benefit from it.