To think about retraining as a.....

[StillAsAStatue]

...........Health Visitor?

I know everyone on MN hates theirs, and they are seen by many as completely pointless at best, and dangerous at worst. However, I feel quite tempted to reply to the recent recruitment drive that has been mailed out to all nurses.

I have many reasons for being interested:

I have recent experience of being a new parent & would love to be in a position to help others.
Recent work experience has shown me that there is so much to the job that most people don't see.
I like the idea of studying again and gaining a further qualification, with all the associated opportunities for career progression etc.
It's a good time in my life to make changes.

Is it the MN equivalent of becoming a traffic warden? Will I be ostracised by all?

Is your NMC up to date Juggling? That would be a key point. If not you'll need to do a 3 month return to practice course. You sound like you have loads of transferable skills and they take newly qualified staff so the lack of nursing experience shoudn't be an issue. You could contact your local university that runs the SCPHN course for further info?

Still I PM'd you as it all become far too wordy for a post :)

Thanks for your encouragement gypsy. I guess my NMC would not be up to date as I haven't worked as a nurse since qualifying in 1990. But as I said I've done lots of other relevant work too with young children and their families on top of the psychiatric nurse training (which actually must be one of the most applicable branches of nursing to working as a HV I'd think)

Wondering what SCPHN stands for and presuming that's the name of the HV course ?

Interesting to hear about the return to practice course, wondering if you could do this with view to going into HV course, or even with a provisional place on such a course. Depends how competitive it is I guess partly.

SCPHN is Specialist Community Public Health Nurse and is divided into school nurse and HV branches. To get on it you must have an active NMC and have 120 credits at Level 2 ( diploma ) The course is a year full time or 2 yrs part time and is like the 3rd year of a degree - you end up with a BSc. Or if you already have that then a Post grade diploma on top.

The return to practice (RTP) is 3 mths and includes about 120 hours clinical work. In theory I think you are supposed to do that work in the field you know ie for you back in psych. However when I do know of someone ( paed trained) who is starting her one in Jan and she has negotiated a place out with the HV team as part of it and a gynae ward for the rest.

It really would be worth looking up your nearest university and talking to the SCPHN course leader. The course is v popular but if you were able to start the RTP in Sept then you could be eligible to apply for the HV course for next Jan or SEpt start. Funding is around until 2015. They would be able to point you in the right direction regarding RTP and finding suitable placements. They are under big pressure to hit the Govt's targets of 4200 Hv by 2015- so now is the best time to be asking about it.

Good luck.

Mine is fantastic. I have DD 2y 9mths and DS 15mths. The second birth was very bad, but she was really supportive to me and DH, which was really appreciated.

Go for it! It's a tough job, but really makes a difference!

Thanks so much for your encouragement gypsy - that's all very interesting and helpful - probably to others here as well as me. 120 hrs clinical work in a 3 mth course doesn't sound a huge amount, and reasonably do-able.

This thread should be on government commission for helping to meet those targets

My HV was an inspiration to me, I wouldn't be a nurse now if it wasn't for her (sometimes wish that wasn't the case; flipping burgers seems preferable on some days!). Seriously considering the HV training, just not sure on how I'd manage financially as a band 5.

You should go for it MrsBrown - especially as it was your HV who inspired you originally.

What is pay like during training and once qualified ? (since you mention it)

I don't want to disillusion you but I would seriously consider spending time with HV before commiting to the course.

I have been a hv for 10 years working fulltime.My colleague and I start work at 8am every day- never have lunch- work until 5pm ..usually take work home to write up notes.

We only work with those families deemed to be vulnerable...IE with significant child protection issues.There is no 'hands on' very little contact with'normal' familes and those we do see get a very limited service.

I have 28 years experience as a nurse, midwife and two degrees-in the last five or so years the service has changed so much the stress levels are intolerable....from our team of 10 HVS 6 are currently or have been absent with stress....and I work in a small town/semi rural patch.

The BSc (Hons) in public health nursing is a fabulous course but does nothing to prepare you for the job and has limited relevance.

The salary does not reflect the role and responsibilites when you realise you have 24 hour responsibilty for your caseload and you are lone practitioners.

Try to speak to some HVs in your area....get some coal face insight before commiting.

Thanks for your insights driving

When I was training as a psych nurse in the late 80s I had the opportunity to spend a couple of days with an HV and also with a community midwife. Both roles seemed interesting, rewarding, and worthwhile and I think I've always had them at the back of my mind as the sort of job I'd love.

But all the visits in those few days were with women/ families with no particular problems, beyond the challenges facing any new Mum. Sounds like things might have changed, and stresses much greater for HV these days ?

Then again, maybe that's why more are needed ?

That is exactly why more are needed.
You qualify on a band 6, I am already a band 6 and near the top of my increments, so financially not a viable option... shame

I am a CP SW, but we obviously work closely with HV's. I can understand MrsBrown point, when there are posts on MN asking how HV spend their time, it is a surprise for them to learn that HV's attend CIN/CP/LAC meetings and are central to the process of child protection and are asked to play an active part, sometimes in a 'hands on' role.

I would like to say that they are always listened to, but sadly they are not, i have seen HV's under immense stress, because their concerns are being ignored, especially in borderline 'failure to thrive' cases.

Sorry i meant drivings point.

Birds

That's exactly my point, ill informed posts such as marriedinwhite's are insulting to both HVs and nurses, and completely ignores the very difficult and pressurised work HVs are expected to do related to child protection, which is often not recognisd.

But hey, let's find a professional we have had a problem with, and make generalisations about all of them!

Have you got more than two brain cells?

Then go for it!

Not ill-informed rhinosaurus. Based on experience and a very bad experience that resulted in a formal complaint and changes being made at Trust level. The hv's I saw were dirty, discourteous, incompetent, political, unhelpful and so lazy it was unspeakable. I was middle class with a husband and had a much wanted new baby - there was no need for them to visit me and if those visits were to be imposed then as a bare minimum they should have been clean, competent, courteous and punctual. Actually no woman is obliged to receive their visits but that is not shared in ante-natal classes or by midwives. Had I been aware of the failings of my local service I would have made alternative arrangements and I would have insisted on having far more information about who would be coming and what their responsibilities were. The little madam actually told me "breast feeding mothers put their babies first, bottle feeding mothers put themselves first". 17 years on - their failures and the fact that they pushed me into clinical pnd still feels raw. The Trust took my complaint seriously. I never saw them after my son was 8 weeks old and I wrote and said they were not to call when my ds2 and dd were born. Never, never again would I deal with them. At the same time, their chairman published in a broadsheet that the service was there to teach ignorant women the 3 c's - cooking communication and cleanliness!!! They treated me as though I was an ignorant woman and it was disgusting.

Sorry for your bad experience married, but an incident that happened to you 17 years ago does not give you the knowledge to denigrate an entire profession, so I am afraid yes, you are ill informed, and out of date.

Sorry Rhinosaurus but are ante natal services now telling the truth about the hv service. For example no woman is obliged to accept their visits and is there an accurate definition of their role now provided to women and a recognised service standard. It took me four months to establish those facts. Before I engage any other provider of professional services I look at a few options and decide which to opt for on the basis of objective information.

As one appears to have no choice with respect to the hv service there is an obligation for it to be fit for purpose. From threads on here it is very clear that it is still not fit for purpose. I am however pleased it is more targeted now. FWIW the red book then even had the concept of mean, average and median mixed up and my hv told me my ds was average because he was on the 50th centile. He was not average in the context of mean as she understood it.

17 years ago the service cost £20 billion to provide - this would not have stood up to robust cost benefit analysis.

Ultimately if any woman thinks there is a problem with her baby or child she shoudl seek the advice of her doctor and if necessary a referal to a paediatrician.

I really like mine, and she is excellent at her job.

'I was middle class with a husband and had a much wanted new baby - there was no need for them to visit me'

married this part of your post just shows how ill informed you are. Do you think that middle class women with husbands dont suffer with PND or PTSD, or are victims of DV, or have innate knowledge of newborns?
A HV is uniquely placed as the lead professional for issues like this.
Im sorry but you actually sound quite ignorant from that post

Married, without minimising your bad experience and the way it made you feel, the health visiting and school nursing service has come on a lot since 1995. The public often poo poo nurses having degrees but that theory to underpin practice has led to better care, and less of the "nurse knows best mentality". Health visitors have the family at the centre of their practice, which has evolved from a huge research evidence base. I know in my trust the health visitors provide family centred care, led by the parents as they are the people who know the child best.

People have bad experiences with many professionals, including nurses, health visitors, customer services, police, local authority, does that mean their whole profession is the same?

I have had a bad experience with an HR person, quite frankly they were demeaning and nasty. Does that make all people in HR not fit for purpose, people who were fed up with doing proper work and not to be trusted?

You would find that if you went to your doctor with a problem with the baby, she/he could quite possibly refer you to your health visitor if the issue didn't meet the referral criteria for a paediatrician.

And there is a national service framework for maternity, children and young people. However, previously you stated that all HVS do is spout department of health mantra.... Which sort of contradicts your request for a set standard, as this is set by the department of health.

Individual Trusts also have very set protocols according to their commissioned services, which intend to provide an equitable service.

I meant a set standard in relation to the quality of the service, in the context of minimum number of visits expected, when and with what notice. I meant a set standard in relation to CPD and ensuring that if the NHS mantra is "breast is best" having a reasonable level of knowledge to support it and about it, I meant being able to correctly complete the red book with the right information. I personally don't think any of those things are unreasonable and I would not accept services from any professional if they were not in place.

The problems I went to my doctor with when my son was small were:

infective mastitis and breast abscess (caused by trying to feed a baby with an unusual palate for too long because of hv's comments) that ended up needing a breast surgeon.

clinical pnd - required prescription drugs for a condition caused by an hv's comments

bronchiolitis - needed referral to hospital

bronchiolitis related wheeziness and asthma - required referral to a consultant and at our request then a private referral to the Royal brompton which sorted out a better inhaler not avail then on the NHS and a session with a specialist asthma nurse which was head and shoulders ab ove the advice given by the asthma nurse at our local nhs hospital.

Recurrent ear infections - referral to consultant ent specialist and grommets which sorted it out once and for all and revolutionised his young life - private all my friends in similar circumstances were being told by hvs glue ear and ear infection had no impact on later achievement. Such later achievement of course being based on the overall achievement of the population as a whole rather than the potential achievement of socio-economic bands A1, A and B.

Eczema combined with asthmatic tendencies - referred at suggestions of gp to royal homeopathic paediatric consultant at the rh hospital. Seemed to work a small miracle although I am sceptical about homeopathy but I don't have a closed mind so tried it.

I'm not sure how the hv service could have helped with any of that and I'm not sure they would have got the referrals any faster - they probably would have fobbed us off and got arsy because we had private health insurance.

Sounds like you had a hard time married, but this still doesn't explain why you feel qualified to make comments such as HV opening for nurses who are fed up with "proper" nursing, and running the entire profession of HVs down based on your one experience many years ago.

HVs in our trust have protocols which HVs follow, the protocols are very clear and set out expected standards which are strictly audited. There are also random telephone calls which go out to parents to ask about the quality of service received.

CPD is a given, HVs have appraisals/management supervision every 3 months where they have to produce a portfolio of recent learning, there is a large evidence base of breast feeding, however this is not conclusive and some of the evidence is currently being questioned.

I suppose it varies from trust to trust, and there are always bad experiences. I just get so fed up when I have done my best to help people in both adukt nursing and school nursing, but you inevitably get those who base their views on their one personal experience and feel that makes them qualified to pass judgement in an entire profession, which is very insulting to those of us who work hard and have studied for years to get where we are.

Sorry OP, this has gone off on a bit of a tangent.

YANBU, why not apply and if you get an interview come back on here for some interview help.