to give 5yo DD a "script" for talking to people?

[WordsAreNoUseAtAll]

DD1 is in reception and is "a loner" according to her teacher. I have always known her to be, well, not shy, awkward is probably the word for it - if she wants to play with a child, she goes up to them and stares at them (which upsets them) or says, for example "do you want to play with me? I am playing hide and seek, I will hide and you count" and then runs off to hide without the other child having said anything. Quite often the child was already playing a game of something else.

The teacher says she has tried to set up games where DD1 can interact with other children in her comfort zone - eg reading to the other kids - but that as soon as the task is finished, DD wanders off.

I wasn't all that bothered before, because she didn't seem to mind playing by herself - she kind of happilly potters about at home or bosses the two year old around. But now she has started having nightmares - last night it was that she was being chased by a tiger and nobody cared, and then the tiger ate her :( She also says that she doesn't like playtime because it smells of dead pig The teacher says she spends the time wandering around the edge of the playground by herself :( Last night she said she was sad because her friends won't play with her any more. One of the friends (although the teacher told me that she doesn't really have any) lives near to us (I only know because I do Avon and saw her when I collected a book from the mum) so I said we could invite her to play and her little face lit up :)

Now I am worried that she will spend the time either bossing the other girl around or being odd (we love her oddness btw, she is really finny and clever, but other kids don't seem to appreciate it) so I thought I would give her some little scripts to use when she doesn't know what to say. She has a good memory so she could remember, but whether she would adapt to what was going on I don't know.

She has one friend who lives in my old town - one of my friend's 4 yo daughter, but she made her cry when they were both sat in a museum victorian classroom and DD told her friend that the teacher would hit the children and lock them up. DD didn't understand why this upset her friend, because it was true, but how do I tell her not to scare her friends?

ARGH. Poor DD is getting upset now when it is time to get ready for school :( She has also started having tantrums like a toddler.

I would HE her if she said she didn't want to go full stop but she adores her teacher and loves the work, and is convinced that the other children will play with her one day, they are just being naughty now.

have you read the out of synch child? gives some strategies
heightened sensory awareness (smell) etc - maybe she has others as well
www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Of-Sync-Child-Carol-Stock-Kranowitz/dp/0399531653/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

My ds used to do a kissing movement/sound all the time but grew out of it. He also runs round the room all the time even when watching tv etc
When he was little he would scream and run away when people came to the house and said hello (even people like hi grandad who he saw a the time) he's much better but still doesn't like being given presents unexpectantly etc.
I am not sure how to progress at the moment as he does really well at school apart from the toilet issue (on waiting list for pead) and socially which ed pysch doesn't seem to bothered about. Educationally he is fine and school are catering to his level but I am concerned that if he doesn't make some close friends soon he will get left behind as the kids form groups and

This is a good book.

Your DD sounds very like my lovely niece (now grown up) who was a gifted child, but struggled socially, - your comment about your DD upsetting another child by talking accurately about Victorians, sound very like something my niece would have said She also tended to have little habits (she used to pull at her eyebrow and eyelash hair for example)

My DSIS worked very hard to help DN socialise, invited other children round etc. To be honest DN did struggle a bit at school, but she did manage to find children with similar interests to be friends with.

My DN has grown up into one of the very nicest people I know, she is a very unique person, but totally adorable, eccentric, funny, creative, sensitive, interesting and bright, and once she hit higher education she met plenty of people who were similar to her and has plenty of friends now

The scripts sound like a good idea to help your little girl get past the initial hurdles, she will find her place in the world, and she will find people who value her for the super little person she is

'The out of synch child has fun' gives even more suggestions for activities I think.

I think the tongue/whistling thing does sound relevant and a wee bit spectrummy . Honestly, don't be scared of that, it's not a prison sentence or anything.

If I were you I'd chat to my GP and maybe the teacher too about whether it might be worth getting some sort of assessment. The only reason you might do that would be to BENEFIT your DD, there is no other reason. So you can weigh up the information and advice you get and decide if you think it might do that.

I'd follow up on the ASD advice OP - it does sound possible from your description.

In the meantime, a social 'script' would probably be an excellent idea. Have you ever read The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time? It's written from the perspective of a male teenager with ASD and he describes having lessons in how to recognise people are sad/angry/happy etc. Not so much a reference text but may help with relating to your DD and working out what she might need a helping hand with.

Good luck :)

Not wishing to be dramatic but I would be concerned about the possibility of ASD and be pushing for specialist advise. I work with two children who's parents are refusing to have them assessed despite them displaying all the symptoms of being (severely) autistic. They don't want them labelled and are hoping they'll grow out of it . So I'm left trying to get these kids through a pre-school session with very little support and no prospect of any as there is no diagnosis.

If there is any possibilty that your DD needs extra support please do your best to ensure she gets it.

If she likes science OP, then get a chemistry set and use it together.

She has a microscope, little science kit that I made and loads of science books that she loves to read and do experiments from, and we use "The Story of the World" as a history resource, which is brill. The school are keeping her challenged (except in reading, but she does enough of that at home) vnd attempting to help her integrate. The teacher is a bit concerned about her refusal to write in almost all situations (she can do it, because she sometimes does it) and the slowness of her work, but we think she is scared to make a mistake.

She is obviously not happy at the moment though :( She just claimed that today she said "will you play with me?" to 29 people, and they all said no. That is obviously an exaggeration, but still quite sad.

YANBU.
Don't bite my head off but maybe your DD has AS or something else like it?
Before jumping to conclusions, it's not always a bad thing. My child has AS and is very smart, often alone and also quite awkward around other children in the same way your DD is, but she has help to cope with it. Maybe you should talk to someone about it - if it turns out she does have something going on (not necessarily AS) then she'll get the help needed for her to be able to integrate better, and you'll get support in how to help her yourself :)

the script does sound very good though!

Oh dear this is my just turned 7 year old Dd too. She's an avid reader and talks about stuff in detail and no one plays with her, she happily potters about at home. Seems happy at school and is doing extremely well in class. And potters about the school yard looking at plants, catching ladybirds.
She only had 5 girls at her birthday party because I'm friends with the Mums and asked them to come
I have no clue how to remedy it, so will re read here to find some suggestions. My Dd will move to UK school probably next Spring 2013 to a tiny 60 pupil school from a 700 pupil one. I see more lonely play times ahead.

Do have a look at the book I linked to earlier, -It's to help children with social difficulties make friends, but I bought it to help my DH (who has asperger's) and he has practiced some of the suggestions and it's helped him quite a bit

MumPaula and Words

If you have concerns about your daughters then it is best to see your GP and ask for a referral to a Developmental Paediatrician who will be able to assess her.

It is a worry as a parent when you realise that there may be a problem. This book referred to above is very nice for small children to read with their parents and isn't specific to SN, so will help no matter if they were to get a diagnosis or not.

I agree with Ben10, if there is something wrong then these things often take time to diagnose, dd1 was referred at the age of 2 and it took us almost 2 years to get a diagnosis of Aspergers (even though she clearly has it), having Aspergers doesn't have to be a bad thing, as others have said 'most children with AS are very bright and succesful' and girls often learn to socialise as they get older and adjust so they can fit in (my dd is getting there). My dd goes to a small school (80 pupils) and i think the smaller school and class sizes has helped her as there are not as many people to work out/learn to get along with, she has 3 or 4 close friends who are boys, she talks to the girls but choses not to play with them, she loves pokemon and loves reading and can talk about pokemon non-stop .

Good lord! Your DD is my son! He is very, very similar. I am now home educating him and that is working really well. I have virtually given up on play dates as he does not enjoy them/does not like them. As someone above said, structured activities are the way to go to avoid disaster (as I know from personal experience). My Ds is not autistic by the way but Dh's family all have poor social skills (but are all v.clever) and I suspect he just takes after his dad. By the way, re the writing thing - my Ds is exactly the same and we believe he is mildly dyspraxic. The dyspraxia also means he has bad 'timing' in conversations (and a poor listener) and is also poor at sport which rules out another way of fitting in with other kids.

Home educating has taken the pressure off DS (also his school was not giving him appropriate work which was bothering him greatly). He also goes to forest school where they allow him to play on his own when he wants (no pressure at all) but he is joining in more and more and now has a best friend there whom he is asking me to arrange playdates with.

Hope this helps. Honestly, your description of your DD is so similar to my son it is unreal! BTW, DS is 6.

I think the teacher should be seeking more advice on how to deal with this situation, if her own efforts haven't worked. Would the head or LEA have support available? The social aspect of school is so important.

As for playtime smelling of "dead pig" well I'm guessing that will be the school dinners cooking!

Another thing, my DS plays better with kids about 2/3 years older than him. They tend to boss him a little to 'fit in' and understand his frame of reference/ideas.

There are lots of forest schools - try googling them. We are in Manchester if that is any help. I home ed Mon - Thurs and he goes to Forest School on Fridays. (You have to pay for it) Forest School is amazing. I have never heard anyone say otherwise!

I really, really want to HE anyway - it was our original plan, but my health makes it really hard (I have mental health problems that had me in hospital/unable to deal with anything at the beginning of the school year, although I am recovering now)

I doubt very much that I will get it past DH though - so ideally she would just be happy and settled at school.

My ideal solution would be flexi school, but we are on benefits so there is no way we can afford a fee paying school and apparently no state schools in sunderland have anybody flexi schooling at all. Meh.

I know several people who do home ed there kids but i feel its important that my dd1 learns to cope in the school setting, she's learning to cope with different social sittuations and she's learning to fit in with the world (even though she shouldn't have too), there are days where dd1 crys because she cant cope with school but there are a lot of times where she enjoys school and she loves the routine. Each child is different and its the parents choice to home ed but to us 'sending dd1 to school is teaching her to survive in the world'. With the correct support your dd will do fine in school, she may have days where she's not happy but if she enjoys learning the joy of learning new things will almost make up for the social side.

I give my 5 year old son little scripts to use to speak to people and it has worked quite well, but sometimes if the 'script' doesnt go to plan and the other child or adult doesnt answer his questions or says something unexpected he'll get very frustrated or just keep repeating the same question over and over again in an angry tone until I interupt.

You definitely should be able to flexi school her. I think it is now an entitlement (not sure so don't quote me on that). Go onto the home ed board here - someone else will know for sure. Being miserable at school doesn't prepare you for the real world IMO - it just makes you miserable and that's it. I think flexi would be great for you and her, get more info on it.

I'd recommend a drama class. It's all role play and you interact in a set way with predictable dialogue... I went to one and it helped me massively. I was a shy and rather oddball kid who could only talk to adults. I found children hard to relate to, didn't understand all the running around screaming etc.

This was because I was home educated in a very isolated area and never saw children on a day to day basis. I wasn't allowed TV and had no knowledge or interest in fashions and trendy things.

Your daughter sounds fabulous, by the way. Gotta love a quirky girl going her own way. Just sad for her about the friend thing but I think she'll find it easier once in secondary school, college etc. Wider range of equally interesting people to meet.