To be incensed by this article?

[Butwhatdoyoudoallday]

The CEO of Addison Lee has been quoted in [[http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/04/20/addison-lee-john-griffin-cab-drivers-cyclists-road_n_1439656.html?ref=mostpopular this] article effectively blaming cyclists for being in accidents. I don't want to start another cyclists v drivers debate, as I appreciate both camps have their crap members and conscientious ones, but am frankly bloody furious that he suggests that it's not a driver's fault for hitting cyclists because maybe they couldn't see them!

This morning I was cycling along the road when someone in the next lane to me decided to change lanes without looking properly and I managed to squeal to a stop inches from the side of their van. Was it not their fault they didn't see me (lit up like a Christmas tree)? Or, as to my mind, should they have looked properly? Had I been in a car I expect I would have hit them. Was v upsetting.

Anyway, is this the new victim blaming?

Addison Lee have just lost my custom. And we used to spend quite a lot with them!

proper link

I can't comment on London cabs, but Birmingham ones were a total law unto themselves.
So I'm not sure a taxi boss should comment on other road users unless he's wearing a flame proof suit!

YANBU - it's scandalous.

I hope this turns into his Gerald Ratner moment, but I fear the petrol headed views of Clarkson et al will be out in support...

That's exactly what I said to DH Chair and I fear that a lot of imbeciles people will side with Mr Griffin.

GB cycling has never been stronger - I only hope the high profile of our cycling team can be used to boost a campaign to counter his views.

Of course cyclists should be careful - but it's not just inexperienced grannies who have to swerve for potholes, every cyclist does (not that inexperienced grannies shouldn't be allowed to cycle if they choose to). The responsibility of the motorist is to anticipate this - otherwise where does he stop - "bloody pedestrians, with their stepping out to cross roads"...

I disagree with the assertion that cyclists are to blame for their own accidents however I think it should be compulsory for all cyclists (and scooter and motorbike riders) to wear fluorescent clothing.

Whilst it is the responsibility of car drivers to look properly, I think cyclists should wear clothing which allows drivers to see them more easily, just as cars (and bicycles) have to have lights on in low light conditions so they can be seen.

I agree with you poppadum. It should be the law to have lights on a bike, and wear reflective clothes.

I can't tell you the number of times I have only seen a cyclist at the last minute because it's dark, they're wearing dark clothes and they've got no light on the bike.

You have to take responsibility for your safety! People being able to see you in the dark is vital.

That said, I have seen some shitty behaviour from drivers. Really vile. Like they're angry with the cyclists for being there (I live in an area that is very popular with cyclists) They go round them so close that it's a wonder they don't blow them off their bikes, they drive inches behind their back wheels - it's intimidation pure and simple.

Absolutely agree with him. Helmets, insurance and registration should be compulsory. Cyclists in London are often shite. Either becuase they are the sunshine only cyclists who wobble around to work a couple of times a year or the "professional" types who think that indicating and red lights are optional. There are definitely some shit drivers too, though I don't often see drivers completely ignoring red lights.

I agree that cyclists should take responsibility for making sure they can be easily seen - lights, hi-vis gear etc. But maybe I'm naive in thinking that the bigger less vulnerable road user has a responsibility to show consideration for more vulnerable ones. This means drivers making room for cyclists, cyclists respecting pedestrian crossings etc.

And londonone as a pedestrian I've seen plenty of motorists and cyclists alike ignore red lights and zebra crossings - the difference is that the cyclists have as much to loose by hitting me, whereas some motorists seemed utterly oblivious. Indeed there's more than one car streaked past me on a zebra crossing.

The chap in a convertible regretted it when I took the opportunity of him being caught in traffic slightly further up the road to express my disappointment in both his observation skills and consideration for others, speculating loudly as to the cause, but I can't imagine it will have changed his behaviour much.

I agree about Zebra crossings, but when it comes to red lights I see cyclists go straight through multiple times each day, it's only occasionally I see a car go through one and never when there is stationary traffic, as they can't!

There are shit cyclists, bikers, drivers & pedestrians. Just as there are good ones.
The only difference is the cyclists, bikers & pedestrians normally come off worse vs a car/lorry etc. Trying to undertake on a nearside or knowing it's safer to go through a red on a pushbike.

I find the better road users are those who are multi-users (bikers who are drives etc), they seem to be more conscientious.

I agree with him.

Living in London I see on a daily basis: cyclists jumping red lights (more do than don't I would say); cyclists nearly mowing down pedestrians at crossings ; cyclists mounting the pavement to get around traffic; cyclists not wearing helmets and cycling at night with no lights.

Surely you all also see cyclists riding defensively and following the rules of the road? I cycle in London and comply with the rules of the road, cycling defensively and not being a tit. On almost every ride I have to take evasive action because people will overtake me then immediately turn left across me, or squeeze past me when there isn't sufficient space, or overtake me and then stop right in front of me, or change lanes without looking or indicating right into my path. I suspect that if I didn't expect other road users not to see me or do something silly I would have been quite badly hurt by now. Do I deserve this just because I choose to cycle?

Isn't saying that cyclists are irresponsible because they "leap onto a vehicle which offers them no protection except a padded plastic hat" not dissimilar from saying women who are attacked are irresponsible for wearing a short skirt, or being weaker than men?

Depends what you mean by cycling defensively! If by that you mean riding so far out from the pavement that no one can get past, yes I see that all the time, it's a massive pain in the arse!

before we all get outraged at the CEO of Addison Lee perhaps we should look at what he himself writes rather than someone elses extrapolation... tkaing a few words from his article and rearranging them to suit thier own position

please read this

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/john-griffin/cycling-a-deadly-serious-issue_b_1440489.html

where he does make valid points about some cyclists being in totally unsuitable gear and being very inconsiderate road users

he calls for better training for youngsters

he calls for trixie mirrors at traffic lights so that HGV vehicles can better see cyclists pulled alongside them

hardly a rant against all cyclists or blaming them for their own accidents ....

... although the one who pulled up alongside my drivers side at traffic lights when I was in the right hand lane and then proceeded to turn left in front of my car trully would have been !!!!!!!!

ps I do also cycle

Isn't saying that cyclists are irresponsible because they "leap onto a vehicle which offers them no protection except a padded plastic hat" not dissimilar from saying women who are attacked are irresponsible for wearing a short skirt, or being weaker than men?

Absolutely not. Women are attacked (ie there is a will to hurt/control by the attacker) irrespective of what they are wearing. A cyclist riding a bike has made a decision that they are happy to take the risk of cycling on a road with other vehicles (which of course is fine). The vast majority of cycling accidents are indeed that - an accident - not a willful act on the part of the car driver to maim the cyclist.

There are some crappy, irresponsible and aggressive drivers out there which do make things worse for cyclist, but at the same time cyclists KNOW that they are inherently less visible therefore should actively take steps to mitigate this ie wear fluorescent clothing and bright lights (as well as a helmet). They should always assume the car has not seen them.

I partially agree with him. I am a responsible driver who has encountered more than one twatty cyclist. Anything that would make them behave sensibly is a good thing.

However, I am obviously aware that there are also twatty drivers and responsible cyclists. In my mind, that equals a sensible conclusion of something along the lines of what the Addison Lee guy is suggesting.

He's not the asshole he's being made out to be in this case.

Agree w tazzle & TidyDancer. There are all sorts of drivers and all sorts of cyclists. There are strict rules for drivers which go some way towards keeping the rest of us safe from the twatty drivers. Stricter rules for cyclists would keep us all safer from twatty cyclists.

I know there's a long-running feud between cycle couriers and taxi drivers but it does seem to be (as a taxi driver memorably said to me once) "six and two threes": I've seen a lot of incredibly selfish and dangerous behaviour by cycle couriers which just makes everyone else out there on the road behave worse to cyclists in general. Good cyclists will be safer if twatty cyclists are reined in a bit. Isn't that a good thing?

You can have as many debates/discussions/scientific research as you want in order to decide who is to blame, who is right, who is better etc etc. Maybe cyclists will come out tops in all of this. But, cyclists may win the battle but will ultimately lose the war.

Cyclists and motor vehicles should not be on the same roads. They do not and will never mix safely. Simply looking at the width of any given road, the width and speed of a motor vehicle and the width and speed of a cyclist is in itself a clear indication of how it simply will never work.

Yes, road users should (should) drive/ride carefully, anticipate this that and the other, make allowances etc etc, but these are people, and people for any number of reasons will at some time or another make a mistake. The cyclist will always pay the price.

This is something I feel strongly about, especially having witnessed too many cyclists laying injured or dead at the side of the road. I also accept that I will never get people's agreement. I just don't know how gravestones it will take with the words " killed at a young age. But he was in the right" before it is realised that nothing but separating the two is the only way.

Well said sixlostmonkeys.

I used to ride a motorbike. I was very aware that I was vulnerable and drove accordingly, assuming everyone else on the road was an idiot and out to get me. Although I had a few accidents they weren't serious. My brother, OTOH rode as if he was in a car. He had far more accidents than I did, including a broken leg.

My father always used to say "assume everyone else on the road is an idiot and never argue with anyone bigger than you". A lorry hit my car going round a roundabout, then tried to blame me, saying I'd come up his inside and gone across into his lane. I was turning left and was in the left lane. He was going straight on in the right lane and had come along behind me. Fortunately had a witness following me who said the lorry had actually come across into my lane. He caused a lot of damage, and clearly a more vulnerable rider would have been written off by him. I now keep well away from lorries on roundabouts and won't go next to them. I have since seen cars get squashed by foreign lorries when they don't realise that the lorry is going to take 2 lanes to swing across.

Yet people are still being injured or killed for cycling up the inside of a lorry. Yes it may be your right to do so, but WTAF? Last week I was stuck behind a lorry in a queue of traffic, and a cyclist came up my inside. We were hardly moving, so when we set off again I hung right back to allow the cyclist to get into the middle of the lane. Instead of doing so he attempted to squeeze up the inside of the lorry, which was overtaking parked cars at the time. The gap wasn't even wide enough for the bike, let alone his legs as well. One twitch of the wheel and he'd have been impaled on the back corner of the lorry.