To ask what your thoughts are on siblings getting priority at over-subscribed schools?

[goingeversoslowlymad]

So the letters have gone out advising parents which school they have gained a place for their 4/5 yr old for September. As happens every year as dc1's school is badly over subscribed, there have been people who have lost out.

The school admission criteria gives priority to children who already have siblings in the school, after they have been admitted it then goes down to catchment area and distance from the school. Is this the norm most places? There was quite a lot of bad feeling today when I was at the park. A few of the mums were really angry and saying that the school is discriminating against first-born and only children as it is making it impossible to get a place. I felt a bit guilty as DC2 was one of those who got a place.

I can really see their argument and really do feel for them but what is the solution? I would not physically be able to get my children to 2 different schools in the mornings. Sorry if this has been done before but would just love to know if there is a fairer solution.

We have 3 DDs at a fantastic primary but we had to move to reduce costs when DH was ill and lost his job. We will be applying for primary for DS in October. We are choosing the school 100m from our house. The DDs school is massively oversubscribed (as is the closest one) but it seems fairer somehow.

As for why we didn't move the DDs, well all of them had been through the divorce of their parents, moved house several times and we felt that as they were happy and settled it would be wrong to move them. Also it wouldn't have been possible to move them all at once which would have been a logistical nightmare with a newborn.

We didn't get our first choice because there are so many siblings this year - last year they took kids from as much as 10miles away but this year kids in the catchment area didn't get places because of the out of catchment siblings.

I don't think it's fair because we're only 1.6miles away so only missed out to a couple of kids, but I'd be fuming if I actually lived right in the catchment area and missed out to kids who live 10miles away. We're hoping dc2 gets a place there next year so dc1 can move up the waiting list but I'm not sure it'll be fair to dc1 to change schools.

One of the out of catchment mums took great delight in telling me how thrilled she was to get a place last year because it guarantees a place for her baby in a few years time.

Meh. There will always be unfairness in the school selection game.

absolutely no confidence in school admissions in our town at all. we didn't get any of our choices (based on proximity and both parents working FT). so i scrambled for a place at any school in sister's postcode in the hope she could help with the school run (though she has two boys at primary herself, and there were no places at that school). appeal failed, my case was they used an old map that didn't even have our house on it (new build). even better, after all the drama we received not one but two letters out of the blue from a school we had never heard of in sisters postcode, confirming the boy had a place there. it has outstanding ofsted report, but we have no idea where they got his name or our address, and when i called them they said he didn't have a place but i could apply as they had places... didn't take any chances and managed to jump through hoops to get him in there. it's 2.5 miles away from our home, and sister and i just about managed to cobble a school run routine until i started mat leave last week. main thing is DS has settled in well and i'm not going to pursue it further because to move him now would just be very disruptive for him.

would be very worried if DC2 is not assigned the same school as DS (siblings are prioritised for this school) but would not be surprised. tis a big problem here where parents cannot even get their DCs in the same school. and recent local article about admissions dept discovering parents 'fronting' grandparents addresses doesn't help.

don't think 'siblings out of catchment' is within admissions policy here but suspect it won't be long before it is adopted here to manage the demand for primary school places. sorry for the long post.

I think its good that schools do put siblings first as who can get to two schools at the same time everyday cos i know i sure as hell wouldnt be able to do it.
I didnt get my letter today as they only went out today 2nd class so i wont hear anything until next week. I didnt even recieve an email like i was told i would as i applied online.

If it is the case that siblings are done first then i know i dont have to worry about what school my 4yr old will go to in September. But i can only rest when i receive my letter.

"most of the resentment was being directed at those whom have moved out of the catchment but still got their DC's in because of the sibling rule"

What a shame they're gossiping negatively about other parents - that's really uncalled for. If they don't like the rules they can complain to the relevant authorities, but don't take it out on parents who don't make the rules.

ohdearnigel 11 year olds are old enough to get to school by themselves

It would be a 4 mile walk from our house to the nearest secondary school. The alternative is about 6 miles. I am sure lots of rural parents have even longer distances. Only 11 year olds within walking distance or an easy public transport ride are old enough to get to school by themselves. I have lived in a very rural area and this simply wouldn't be the case for a lot of families. In a village near to my parents you would have been looking at a20-25 mile round trip to get your child to the "catchment area" secondary and it was not on a public transport route

we haven't had new yet of ds2 nursery place, but I am praying he gets in, and good news is his older brother is at the school, it would be impossible for me to be at two schools at the same time, I dont have any family to help me either, and dh cannot finish work early, and we wouldnt be able to afford after school care/childminder, as I have been made redundant.

I think the mums are being UR, its just not about the school, its about the logistics of the family setting also, most households couldn't be at two places at the same time.

i lived in the countryside as a teen it was a good 30-40 min bus ride to my school and there was a bus, i just had to walk to the bus stop, was an early morning and got back late its what we all did.

It's perfectly normal practice. Who is it discriminating against, exactly? The parents of the younger siblings would also have been in your position with their first borns.

I generally agree that places should not go to siblings who are out of catchment (especially where the parent has moved after getting the first child in). However, in some areas where there is no 'catchment' and the main criteria is straight line distance to the school I don't think this should be followed. A friend of mine has had to deal with a large amount of vitriol about her DD3 getting a place for September, yet they live in exactly the same house as when they applied for their DD1. Her DD2 would also have got in anyway, why should she be penalised because the distance is different this year? The same goes for when catchments are changed.

Yes, but it's hardly the fault of parents who had their first child a few years ago that the birth rate has gone through the roof. Instead of blaming parents who've managed to get siblings in, they should blame the authorities for poor planning if there is a shortage of places.

faith schools generally dont prioritise siblings or they dont near me - on wednesday i was told my dd age 4 is very unlikely to join her sister age 6 in school due to distance. Result is this monday. Its a nightmare!

Plus don't forget we all went through the same thing a few years ago with our first! Also some people get allocated school very far away through no fault (see primary thread as some getting none of their 6 choices). Sibling priority is a must imo.

My DS didn't get into our first choice school because of siblings and we live closer than most of them - the school is only a few years old so a lot of the siblings were from the first few years' intake and the school has become very popular very quickly. I am disappointed he didn't get in to that school, but the criteria are what they are and I think that it's understandable that people want primary school children together and not simply for convenience. The school he is going to is very good too - which is why we moved to this area, any of my 6 choices are fantastic schools. Choice 1 and choice 2 schools are about 100 metres apart.

Our LEA does it in the following order:
Looked after children
Acute medical or social need
Siblings regardless of address
Proximity

Whilst there certainly are families who play the system, I think it would be very diffficult to not give priority to siblings that are not in the catchment area for a school for a number of reasons.

Parents may have split up or lost jobs making a house move necessary. Preventing younger sibs from joining existing sib at a school would put a family already under pressure under yet more strain.

Some of the first born in families from outside catchment may not have wanted to go to that school in the first place, but failed to get a place at their local school. To not offer them a place because they were out of catchment through no fault of their own would be harsh.

OhdearNigel - at 4 miles or 6 miles those children would qualify for free transport from the LA.

I didn't know this - thanks

I'm not yet at the point where my second child needs a school place and I completely see both sides to the argument. However my eldest is in a good school, he is settled and considering we have had behavioural issues with him and he goes to an excellent childminder local to his school who has had him almost since birth I was not changing his school or childminder when we moved further away from the school. This would be detrimental to him. I need to do what's best for my child. This does however mean that when my second starts nursery/school he will need to go to the same school as he is currently looked after by the same childminder and she can only pick up from two schools in that area. I understand that it might not be fair on children who live closer but I would not only need to change schools but also change childminders (I work shifts and am unable to pick up from school most days hence the need for childminder after school). It's hard to find excellent childcare and my eldest son trusts both the school and is doing very well and the childminder who understands his behaviour. It's not feasible to have two children in different schools with different childcare in different parts of the town.

i will end up with 3 in 3 schools come next september AARRRGHHH - we have moved out of the catchment area

we started at a lovely village school - one child needed to go elsewhere due to quite specialist needs which school couldn't offer.
dc1 is statemented to a special school
dc2 is statemented to lovely village school
dc3 will have to go to our new local school - if they get a place!

dc2 school does not have sibling priority - it goes something like
looked after children
statemented SEN places
lives in catchment and attends church in parish (normally places are full at this point!!!!)
lives in catchment and attends church out of parish
sibling
lives in catchment no church attendance
any other applicant

my friend removed three children from one school because it was physically impossible to take three to one and one to another the schools were not close they were both driving distance three needed to be taken (one old enough to take himself but it was across busy roads) so yes i think sibling should get priority

but i admit i live in an area with loads of primary schools i actually take my son to the out of catchment school but only because they have spaces it seemed to be the better school of course now im here i know its pants except on paper but still recommended as the best in the area by ofsted

I've got three at three schools. Its a nightmare logistically. My school run (walk) is about 12 miles on the theee days the youngest is in. The Eldest gets a taxi with assitance as he goes to special school.

My middle one didn't get into the local school, sibling rule a bit irrelevant with special school. My youngest is therefore out of catchment to go to the same school as the middle one so whilst on the surface I get the catchment rule before siblings out of catchment what about if you were out of catchment to start with! If DD didn't get into the non local school goodness knows how much futher we'd have to travel to get a place.

Next year i've got them down to two schools, DD has secured a place at the not local school DS2 attends, and we will hopefully get funding for transport for DS1 so i can still get the younger two to school.

Ds2's teacher has been fantastic and has him out the door really promptly so we can run home and meet DS1 off his taxi, who've also been great at waiting for us if necessary. It'll be nice to not always be running next year, i hope.

We don't have 'catchments' but do have the sibling rule so my DD has just got a place at her brother's oversubscribed school. We lived closer when he got in but then moved further away to comparable circumstances - not bigger and better housing. There are nearer schools that are all 'outstanding' at infant level and our nearest school is a very popular 1 class entry Catholic school. My DH is Jewish so we just want a secular school- more in keeping with our family set up. This school has lots of expensive cars outside at drop off so I don't think many people are 'locals' as theres not many that walk to it. it's just highly desirable because of it's small classes and access to good secondary catholic school. It's madness that we can't go to our nearest local school around the corner because it is the wrong religion. Secular schools should be a priority not the over focus on sibling priority.

The problem is that is is quite hard to change the existing system. Many more schools would have to offer staggered starts (with respect to the neighbouring schools) and before and after school childcare I think (especially initially).

I would be pretty irritated if they scrapped sib priority in our area since we only got our last choice school for our first child. Our nearest is faith only and the next 2 nearest (placed 1st and 2nd on our list inc. our nearest community school) were really popular due to being great schools. Our school has become more popular but when we got it people were sympathetic to it being our 4th furthest and not that well regarded. We would be too far by distance alone (going on this years stats) to get in. But we haven't moved or tried to fix the system in our favour, we got a fairly unpopular school 5 years ago despite trying to get into a nearer one.