To ask what your thoughts are on siblings getting priority at over-subscribed schools?

[goingeversoslowlymad]

So the letters have gone out advising parents which school they have gained a place for their 4/5 yr old for September. As happens every year as dc1's school is badly over subscribed, there have been people who have lost out.

The school admission criteria gives priority to children who already have siblings in the school, after they have been admitted it then goes down to catchment area and distance from the school. Is this the norm most places? There was quite a lot of bad feeling today when I was at the park. A few of the mums were really angry and saying that the school is discriminating against first-born and only children as it is making it impossible to get a place. I felt a bit guilty as DC2 was one of those who got a place.

I can really see their argument and really do feel for them but what is the solution? I would not physically be able to get my children to 2 different schools in the mornings. Sorry if this has been done before but would just love to know if there is a fairer solution.

I know of one local school where catchment has priority over siblings. It would be beyond annoying to live in that village and not be able to get in. However I think you need to have a heart and let the siblings in. I have seen a few families have to move the older one out when the younger fails to get in, or children who had a place in the infants loose it when it comes time to apply to the Juniors.

I think the fairest way would be to give siblings priority providing the home address has not moved further from the school when the sibling applies. That would put a stop to the get DC1 in then move to bigger/cheaper house.

Our nearest school had 15 siblings last year, for 30 places. As everyone else was admitted strictly on distance, and in our LEA distance is the be-all-and-end-all, I do think that siblings should also be ranked on distance. We've got 6 years of a rotten journey ahead of us, instead of an easy walk.

As someone else said further down, difficulty with the journey/ getting them there on time counts for nothing at appeal, so shouldn't really form any part of the admissions process.

It may be difficult getting to different schools but perhaps that would stop people applying for a good school then moving away? They could make an exception if the family are still at the same address as they were when DC1 was admitted. Having said that, I had my 4 older children at 4 separate schools for several years and it worked just fine.

Where we live siblings only have priority if you live in catchment. The oversubscription criteria lists them as
3-siblings and in catchment
4-in catchment children
5-siblings and out of catchment
6-out of catchment children

I'm the same as antsy - one child who will never have siblings. I think the sibling rule makes sense. I'll find out tomorrow morning if I still feel the same way...

One of our local schools goes looked after children, SEN, siblings of children at the school for whom it is nearest school to their home address, non-siblings for whom it's nearest school to home address, then siblings for whom it is not nearest school, and then finally non-siblings for whom it is not the nearest school.

^ This from a previous poster is, in my opinion, how it should be at all schools.

Having 2 young children in 2 different schools has got to be bad for everyone surely??

The family as a whole
The kids
Mornings in general
The environment, local traffic
etc etc

I thought the siblings policy was being/had been recently amended so the sibling is now only a priority if child A still lives in the school catchment area?

ah, so the issue isn't about the sibling rule, but more about parents who have moved out of the catchment area?

Well, our local primary is over subscribed. Apparently the furthest admission is .44 of kilometer, which doesn't make sense as there there's a traffic jam at the school at 08:45 and 3:30

Ours has just changed here and is now as previous poster :-
Looked after children SEN
Siblings of children at the school for whom it is nearest school to their home address
non-siblings for whom it's nearest school to home address
siblings for whom it is not nearest school
and then finally non-siblings for whom it is not the nearest school.

Our lea uses the same critera as MrsCarrie mentioned.
It also measures distance from school as how the crow flys.
So if after, looked after children,SEN,children living in catchement with siblings,there are some places left it will go on how near to the school you live.
I do think that a child living nerest to the school should take priority over the sibling of a child who has moved away.

I thought the siblings policy was being/had been recently amended so the sibling is now only a priority if child A still lives in the school catchment area?

I think it depends on your area. It would be much simpler if everywhere followed the same criteria. My second nearest school applies the sibling rule only if they are in catchment area.

I wonder if the mums in your OP would be crying "discrimination!!!" in a few years' time if they DID change it so that siblings didn't get priority, and these same parents found themselves having to get their second born to a different school a mile down the road at the same time as getting their first born to somewhere else...

How is it discriminatory, when all these parents had to get their first child a school place too?

Well assuming the school is their nearest, they shouldn't have a problem getting their second children in. And if they do have problems, the fact that school A is close by will help greatly. Like I said, if you apply for a school that isn't your closest for child #1, and/or you move further away, then it's a risk you take. Sorry.

Sunscorch Yes DH pointed that out to somebody he was talking to and got shouted down with "Yes but the year group wasn't that big then, there has been a massive increase with migrants". You can't really win can you?

Because of my kids' ages, I had three kids, three schools for 2 years....it was a nightmare. Different inset days. Driving 5 miles between the youngest 2's school. Oldest one would have to catch bus at £100 per term, eventhough her school was closest, I just physically couldnt get them all to school on time.

but actually, I agree with the siblings in catchment rule. If you live that far away, you should look at schools closer to your new address.

well we would have an awful journey except for the sibling rule. We moved to the area when DS was in yr2 and there were no catchment schools so he got put 5 miles away we are well out of catchment and it is an oversubscribed school which had just had a child leave yr2 as we got here hence getting in. Now DD is in yrR having got in on the sibling rule, we are out of catchment but not due to our fault, if there was no sibling rule I would either have one child late each day or would have to move the older one if the local school had place which it didn't before

Unless you say catchment only and give spaces to those moving into catchment then any rules will be unfair to someone

Here catchment children get priority over non-catchment siblings. That's as it should be I think. As long as everyone knows the rules then you make your choices about schools and where you live accordingly.

I think it's madness to have a situation where children can't get into their catchment school but others can from out of catchment.

but if you have to move for work and then can't get a school for an older child in catchment then how do you deal with the fact that any younger sibling will be out of catchment when they start school? We didn't choose to be out of catchment the LA chose for us to be when they allocated oldest school place after moving

How do you find out a school's furthest admission? Just wondering what DS1's school is?

I think schools need to give siblings priority. I don't know what we will do if DS2 doesn't get into DS1's school as I can't be in 2 places at once and there is no breakfast or afterschool club at DS1's school or our 2 next nearest schools. In some ways we are fortunate that DS1 goes to a ofsted satisfactory school on an estate with mostly council houses because it means nobody is moving in to get the dc's into the school and then moving away again.

Ellie-most leas have a schools admissions dept so I guess ring them and just ask. Or tell them where you live and they will tell you which catchment you are in.

With regard to over-subscribed schools with a catchment area, I don't think it's fair if a child takes up a place and then moves out of catchment. Maybe they could introduce a system that means you have to give up your place and move your child's school if you move out of catchment? It's ridiculous that a child attends a school if they don't live that close just because they happened to live within catchment at the time of applying.

Our school is a 'faith' school so you have to live within the parish of the church it is affiliated to iyswim. I know some actually have a catchment area as drawn out on a map and others go on a certain mile radius of the school. The school or LEA will tell you.

We had to appeal to get DD1 into local village school when we moved here, they were very oversubscribed in reception and KS1 but we did get a place.

DD2 is at local pre-school and tho this doesn't guarantee her a place at the local school, that and the sibling rule should go in our favour.

It does however make me really pissed off that there are parents at pre-school who don't live anywhere near this village but who bring their kids to pre school here because they are more likely to get a school place and the school is better here than the more inner city ones a few miles away
Also the parents that take a 6mth lease on a 1-bed cottage in the village just to get the address and lease papers to get a local address, then disappear after 6 Mths but clog the school driveway up with their range rovers etc etc when they live nowhere near...... Boils my blood that one

Did you all also know that children from traveller families, take immediate precedence over any other child and if there are no spaces whatsoever available, one will be created for a traveller child!

Our school is:
looked after
church involvement
sibling in catchment
in catchment
sibling out of catchment.

If DD does not get a place at DS's school next year then I have no idea how I would get both children to different schools 20 minutes apart at the same time in the morning or collect them at the same time in the afternoon. I am a SAHM because there is no afterschool provision at DS's school and couldn't get childcare to work for me to enable me to continue working.

Why is it unfair that siblings don't get priority? So long as the family are still in catchment then that is the ideal scenario. Schools prefer it as they can build up links with families and it makes integrating new children easier each year if there is a history.

A girl in DS's class only joined after year 1 as the family had moved out of catchment before she applied. Her 2 sisters were in school, she went to another one as they were well down the priority list and only got in once someone had left.

I think it is fair that out of catchment come way down the priority list, particularly in more community minded schools, which tend to be CoE.

Our school gives priority to siblings in catchment which helps prevent the situation where people rent near the school for a few months to get their children in. Surprised all schools aren't adopting this as numbers increase or where they're oversubscribed.