Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think a £7500 income cap on free school meals is a deathwish?

424 replies

thirdhill · 19/04/2012 11:57

I'm so shocked to see the Children's Society analysis reported in most papers today about proposals to introduce a £7500 income cap on free school meals.

My initial reaction is this is sheer vindictiveness, taking away a meal from kids in dire need. Will the money spent on a daily lunch for a few children save our economy? Or perhaps we can be relied on to not care anymore? Or is there a wider picture nobody is reporting? My understanding is that the present income cap is £16k, which already seems a challenge for a family of say four.

Sarah Teather, the Minister, is a lib dem MP but this must tar both parties for many and seems an absolute deal breaker for mobile voters. Straw that broke the camel's back, death wish, etc.

Curious if anyone knows any more to this.

TIA

OP posts:
porcamiseria · 19/04/2012 14:11

whoever said "they hate the poor"

yup, this has made me angry

fucking cutting food for kids

theDevilHasTheBestMNNames · 19/04/2012 14:12

If less people have hot meals because they no longer get them free - won't this drive up the price to those who already have to pay? Making it harder for other DC to have hot meals?

I get ill in winter - and Dec and Jan this year with DH working away and me just coping it was a god send to have the option of hot dinners. If they'd been much more expensive it just wouldn't have been possible.

gramercy · 19/04/2012 14:13

The Children's Society is of course rather biased - after all if no children were in poverty they'd have to shut up shop. This may sound harsh but I have experience of this charity and I would not donate money to it. They devote too great a percentage of their money on agencies who can spout attention-grabbing hyperbole.

porcamiseria · 19/04/2012 14:14

you know what, I am in the "cuts need to be made" and "there is only so much money" camp too

But children? they did not ask to be born

really sad

but what bramshott said too, CUNNING!!!! are you a politcian

asuwere · 19/04/2012 14:15

It's not about cutting food for children or making children suffer. It's about cutting that massive overspending and encouraging more families to support themselves so that those who really do need the help will be able to get it.

If these children are in such awful home conditions where they can't wash etc, then something else needs to be done rather than just giving them a free school meal!

porcamiseria · 19/04/2012 14:15

agree gamercy, I dont trust many charities these days
as they had shit loads in savings and lost them in fucking ice save,and spend a fortune on prime time adertising

thekidsrule · 19/04/2012 14:16

if this was implemented who the hell would be elegible or is that the point,

Birdsgottafly · 19/04/2012 14:16

Asuwere- sorry, but you don't seem to have a clue about life for many, who this will hit, children who don't have breakfast, especially the day that the benefit is due and they have woken up without electricity or gas,because budgeting has to be so tight .

It scares me to think that we will go back to what we saw in the 1970's and 80's.

Rikalaily · 19/04/2012 14:17

asuwere child maintainance isn't tax free, the parent who pays it pays tax on that money before it goes to the resident parent just as they would if those parents were still together. If the resident parent paid tax on it, it would be double taxed and the kids would end up with less.

You attitude is disgusting. We are not entitled to FSM because of WTC so I send them in with packed lunches, even this costs a fortune and believe me, in the area I live in, those kids who lose thier free school meal will be going in with a packet of crisps and a mars bar, most around here don't even get a decent breakfast. Kids are the only ones who will suffer for this, can't believe there are people here so selfish that you honestly begrudge a child a meal.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 19/04/2012 14:17

Giving them the free school meal isn't the only thing 'done', though - but it's a pretty good place to start.

WatneyShed · 19/04/2012 14:17

encouraging more families to support themselves so that those who really do need the help will be able to get it

If you're on £7k a year, you'll need that help ffs.

poppyknot · 19/04/2012 14:17

HateBeing - I think Tommy Sheridan suggested this in the Scottish parliament way back when..... In some ways it makes as much sense as child benefit for (nearly) all.

Also govt seemed willing to tie itself in knots about the 'cliff edge' of the CB debacle but at the moment don't seem so keen to be seen to be addressing this one..........

Voidka · 19/04/2012 14:18

Its only a petition though, isnt it.

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 14:19

£7500 so £144 per week. is that considered a reasonable amount for a family to live on now then?

at our school the fsm entitlement is also used as a way to prove that no you can't afford £15 for someone to come in and talk about dinosaurs and £15 to go on a trip 3 miles down the road for 2hrs to see something that has a £2 entry fee and no you can't afford whatever bloody thing there is this week you're getting a demand letter for. so it will be more than the just the meals people lose.

if this government gets another term there will absolutely nothing left and no way of prizing any of it back out of the hands of the greedy and the selfish and the condemning and judgmental and begrudging who have happily clapped as it all got burned.

Agincourt · 19/04/2012 14:20

The Chjildren's society do loads of work for children with disabilities, it's not just for those who you perceive as 'poor', though statistically it is more likely you will live in poverty if you are disabled or a carer

DoingTheBestICan · 19/04/2012 14:22

Why cant this country adopt Finlands mantra & give all children a free hot meal? I know this is a rubbish comparison but prisoners get free food.

theDevilHasTheBestMNNames · 19/04/2012 14:22

asuwere
It's not about cutting food for children or making children suffer. It's about cutting that massive overspending and encouraging more families to support themselves so that those who really do need the help will be able to get it.

Maybe I'm just cynical - but I do not believe these cuts will mean people who need help will get it.

I think they are more likely to go without meaning poverty is a harder trap to escape and that the increasing demonisation of the poor will continue - ie it their own fault, or DC problems are all on the parents ect.

I will watch this story with interest - as I to am cynical about charities these days.

minimathsmouse · 19/04/2012 14:23

If these children are in such awful home conditions where they can't wash etc, then something else needs to be done rather than just giving them a free school meal! austerity is causing this situation to get much worse and if you really need to ask that, here is what I think.
Give workers a fair wage and stop making claimants out of all of us whilst subsidising businesses to pay less wages and less tax. Do something about the rising level of unemployment and make sure that where it is absolutely nesassary to pay benefits, ensure they meet living costs.

There is a simple equation, if you ensure families are not living in poverty through wages that meet living costs, or through benefits that meet living costs then you don't need to provide hot meals to their starving children. Otherwise continue to impoverish families but feed their children with free school meals. For me it's that simple.

thekidsrule · 19/04/2012 14:23

do you know what 2 of mine have FSD (cafe at school) youngest is fussy so i provide packed lunch

i feel strongly about this and would rather lose my 2s meals as im able to manage than other kids lose it because of chaotic home life

those kids will suffer not the parent

yeah gods has it really come to this

TheRealMrsHannigan · 19/04/2012 14:23

asuwere there are people in this country earning below £7500, who do not claim WTC because in some cases, they have no idea how to start the process, or that they are even entitled to claim anything.

There are also people who will be earning around 10K mark, that is not a huge wage by anyone's standards, why on earth would you begrudge anyone on this kind of income a free meal for their DC?

I also think some people are missing the point, starving children is, thankfully, a rarity in the UK. But under nourished children are far too common in our society, as are children who go to bed hungry. Not starved, but not enought food to leave them full and satisifed. A free nutritious meal, once a day, helps to combat this.

Original poster
thirdhill · 19/04/2012 14:24

gramercy, do you think the Children's Society are exaggerating or misleading us? That did not occur to me since every newspaper has picked it up, and the cap proposed is so clear.

Do you think they are doing it because FSM is the main way they identify their constituency and reduced FSM will threaten them? Or are you saying something else?

Like most, I know of them only in passing from the work they do locally with child care. All charities succumb to shroud waving to some extent, but this item is not exactly hard to unpick by the national newspapers if it's exaggeration. Anyway whatever they are, this proposal does shock me.

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 19/04/2012 14:24

i think if you take and take and take from the poorest in society who aren't in a position, for whatever reason, to get out there and make a financial success of their life there must come a snapping point where they just don't give a fuck about society anymore. all of this stuff is going to create so much more disenfranchisement whilst pretending it's going to get people into work (what work for a start and how if they're totally unable to do it).

i'm just not of good health and a single parent and i feel so pushed and pushed that i could just detach and never come back itms. god knows how it feels if you also have no qualifications, live in a sink estate, are illiterate or struggle with learning difficulties, etc etc etc.

they really better be building themselves nice big gated communities with very good security. maybe just drive all the poor out of the south east and then build a 10m high electric fence around it with armed guards along the perimeter?

Birdsgottafly · 19/04/2012 14:25

If these children are in such awful home conditions where they can't wash etc, then something else needs to be done rather than just giving them a free school meal

encouraging more families to support themselves

Are the redundacy notices across the country and lack of jobs, passing you by somehow?

Are you not seeing more and more, retailers, pubs etc, closing and dissappearing, that has a knock on effect across all sectors.

Not all benefits are 'gateway' benefits, so if you are awarded 'Widowed parent allowance', (for example) carers benefit stops, if you are not working then WTC's cannot be claimed, if an income support top up is not applicable (which soon won't be) then FSM cannot be claimed.

There was the 'guarenteed minimum income' introduced under Labour, for good reason, that is now going out the window.

Many families will be back to living on chips and beans.

asuwere · 19/04/2012 14:26

yes, child maintenance is taxable for the person earning it but the person who is receiving it (which is what I was mentioning) doesn't have to pay tax on it and doesn't need to declare that as income for TC purposes!

if the children who lose the meals will get a bag of crisps and a mars bar, then really they have much bigger issues! How can it change from the these poor parents who are trying their best and unfortunately just can't afford a hot meal to the usual assumption that parents on low income don't know/care what good food is?!

Minimum wage is £6.08/hr, 16hrs/week for single person or 24hrs/week for couple to qualify for WTC would give incomes of £5058 or £7587. These seem low incomes but they will qualify for WTC so won't get FSM anyway - even if the limit stays at £16000!!

Based on those figures, there will be minimum effect on people so all these children that everyone is worrying about should be fine!

BonnieBumble · 19/04/2012 14:27

What can we actually do if we feel angry at the cuts made?

I seem to spend my time feeling angry then sad but not actually doing anything constructive. Obviously I know what box my cross will go in at election time but I live in such a Tory stronghold that its almost pointless.

I'm disgusted by people's attitudes more than the cuts (we all know the Tories only care about the rich). I feel we need to make a stand against peoples selfishness as much as anything else, but how?