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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think this is shocking!

21 replies

lola88 · 16/04/2012 10:16

I'm new here and this is a bit of a long story but i need to know AIBU.

A friend i've known most of my life has just had DS2 and has decided to get him circumcised as they boys father is Muslim and insisting on it which would be fine however the baby has a problem with his penis which he will have an op to correct in the new few months, the doctor has told them that due to this problem circumcision would not be a good idea and most likely will cause the boy problems when he his older doc strongly advises against it. But she is still going ahead I am totally shocked that she would put her baby through something that could cause him problems and pain for the rest of his life on his fathers say so. He has previously said he is ashamed of DS1 and does not have a relationship with him because he is not circumcised.

Now i know it's their business but she did not have DS1 circumcised because she thought it was unnessesary to put a baby through that pain and said so with DS2 thoughout her pregnancy. Their father is not around much does not pay towards them, has has SS involved due to hitting her DS1 and threatening to rape her and beating her but for some reason now he's said he's changed for the 100th time she's changed her mind.

After years of watching her letting him abuse her and her DS i feel like i can no longer speak to her i just can not watch her put her children through abuse and let one of them suffer for years for a man who doesn't even act like a father. So what i am asking is AIBU to cut her off.

OP posts:

boringnickname · 16/04/2012 10:18

Yes YABU if you were really her friend then you would stand by her.

festere · 16/04/2012 10:19

she needs your help. Not cutting off.

poppycat04 · 16/04/2012 10:20

I wouldn't cut her off, she sounds like she needs your support. Her partner sounds awful, there's nothing Muslim like about the way in which he is acting.
Can you not talk to her and try and persuade her to listen to the doctors?

BooMagoo · 16/04/2012 10:22

YABU

You're friend is already taking an emotional battering.

Calamityboo · 16/04/2012 10:22

YABU to think of leaving this poor woman alone with no support, but I do understand your concerns about the circumcision, she should really listen to the doctors advice, if xh is so shallow that he will not speak to ds because he is intact, I would make no effort to please him in any way (especially if it means years of pain for ds)

PurplePidjin · 16/04/2012 10:24

Yes YABU. Whatever you're going through watching her, she's suffering a million times worse.

3littlefrogs · 16/04/2012 10:27

I cannot understand why she doesn't inform social services, given that their is a history of abuse.

IMO this is abuse because he is insisting on carrying out an unnecessary procedure, against medical advice, that will cause pain and distress to the boy for the rest of his life.

I would have thought that anyone who carried out the procedure would be complicit in assault.

tiggyhat · 16/04/2012 10:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ragged · 16/04/2012 10:36

I can understand why you've cut her off. I think OP has already said what she thinks & tried to support but her friend won't listen. I couldn't watch it all happen, either. I'm not good with crazy people.

hattifattner · 16/04/2012 10:39

Would it be possible to speak to a Muslim cleric about this - maybe even to the cleric that runs the mosque which the devout DP attends...I know in many muslim cultures, the boys are not circumcised until later - my ex was done at age 6. It didnt make him any less Muslim.

And if he is really devout, why does he have a baby out of wedlock with a non-muslim girl, whom he does not support?

Seems he is being picky about which parts of his faith he accepts.

If baby is having an op on penis in a few months, then maybe she could compromise and have the circumcision done at the same time, under general, by a doctor.

If the father does not like this, then it indicates that he is still putting his own needs above those of the child.

Maybe she needs to establish whether this chap has really changed (unlikley) before she destroys her sons life...a man with a faulty penis is not going to thank her or his feckless father.

Also, maybe ask her how she would feel if the baby had a more obvious defect - like a cleft palate - would she allow this man to bully her into making an unncessary operation against medical advice so that he could bond with the child? I dont think so.

In all things, your friend needs to be a mother, and that means making tough decisions.

From your side, I think you need to support her and advise her. SHe will never be able to stand up to him alone.

boringnickname · 16/04/2012 10:41

I would have thought that no doctor would do this anyway if there were medical indications to say it was unadvisable.

Debsbear · 16/04/2012 10:43

I can understand why you would want to cut her off, it must be very hard for you, but try to stick around. It sounds like she needs you. I agree with teh earlier poster, if the doctor is advising against circumsision then I think anyone who performed the operation would be compicit in abuse so I would be tempted to speak to the doctor/ social services myself to find out what the legal ramifications for your friend could be if she goes along with this. Maybe you could also point out how difficult it would be for them, if the father is invlved with the younger son but not the older. In my opinion, both boys would be better off without him, certainly I wouldn't want friction between the boys as a result of different treatment.

Chandon · 16/04/2012 10:44

don't cut her off.

Don't force her to leave him either. Just listen and show if you are shocked.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 16/04/2012 10:51

You would not be unreasonable to walk away from this woman. Yes, she is doing the wrong thing and needs help but, if she is not willing to accept it and if you have been watching her make similar terrible mistakes for years already, you can make yourself very distressed and frustrated by remaining in contact. Friendship can only go so far.

Theas18 · 16/04/2012 11:03

I assume he has a problem where the hole in the head of the penis is not quite in the right place?

It would be very very unwise to have a circumcision before this is sorted out. The "spare skin" is often needed to assist in the "surgical fix" of the problem. The baby will be effectively circumcised at the procedure anyway.

She needs to understand this and to be aware by circumcising him before hand she may be making the op he nees much less effective and simple.

Doesn't sound as iof she understands this or has taken it in.

diddl · 16/04/2012 11:06

If you are the only person she has in the world then maybe YABU.

You´ve tried with her, she seems determined to stay with this man.

Sometimes I think that you have to step away for the sake of your own life.

ComposHat · 16/04/2012 13:09

I think in normal circumstances circumcision is pretty abhorrent genital mutilation. In this case it is child abuse, for the sake of the child you need to hang on in there.

Original poster

lola88 · 16/04/2012 18:53

Theas18 i believe that is the problem and it's pretty severe.

I have hung in for 5 years but am getting to the point i can not stand to listen to her without getting very angry and it's getting harder to keep the anger in. I keep thinking if she wants to be hit screamed at not safe in her own home fine but to put her kids though it to keep the person doing it is so wrong. Her DS1 says i hate daddy he makes mummy cry and throws me in my room (literally thrown) what do you say to that

My DS1 is 8 weeks older than her DS2 i was feeding him the other night and found myself in floods of tears thinking how unfair it was my DS will lead a hopefully happy life and her boys will live a life of abuse just because what family they are born into. I can't do a thing to help i've phoned SS myself a couple of times i've been that worried at what point is it enough, it's really effecting me now.

OP posts:

Jux · 16/04/2012 19:06

Do you have any evidence of abuse? Can you give SS dates? This will strengthen their case and give them a bit more to go on.

Personally, I would keep phoning SS and keep phoning them, and keep phoning them until the children are safe.

It may also be worth telling them what she plans with the circumcision. No idea if that will have an effect, but anything is worth a try in these circumstances.

Please try to hang in there. You're probably the only person she's got, and the only one they poor boys have.

Mrsjay · 16/04/2012 19:27

Dont cut her off you maybe her only support , just be int he background though it seems to be getting on top of you , but if this man is as bad as you say he is then she is going to need all the friends she can ,

bobbledunk · 16/04/2012 19:50

Do ss know that she is going to have a procedure performed which will cause the baby pain for the rest of his life? How can that even be legal? That is serious assault, everybody who participates in that should be in prison. I'd go to the police about that for advice.

You need to inform police and ss and tell her you have done so in the hope that she doesn't have the opportunity to ruin her little boys life by permanently damaging his penis. Tell her that obviously her son will grow up to hate her if she destroys his life like this and doing so makes her a very stupid, selfish, horrible woman and that you wouldn't wish her as mother to your worst enemy because nobody deserves to be raised by such an idiot.

Her son is the victim here not her, she has a choice, this baby doesn't.

Tell her that if she goes through with ruining her sons life you will no longer be her friend because you have to have some sort of standards with your friends and child abusers are the lowest of the low, the vilest of the vile and you will be sick at the sight of her. Get those words into her head; child abuser, child abuser, make sure she knows that she has become a child abuser...

Do not under any circumstances view her as a victim just because she chooses to love a violent man. There comes a time when we have to be responsible for our own actions. There is no excuse for child abuse. None. Ever

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