to be fuming the nursery is using a debt collecting agency to reclaim money from me.

[msangry]

Very long story, but background important. My dd went to local nursery when she was 6 months old when I had to go back to work. She spent 4 years at this nursery with my nursery bill being about £700 a month. That's a total of over £33,000 paid to this nursery. During my dd's time there she contracted food poisoning from the nursery and was hospitalised, she was very ill. The hospital wanted me to report the nursery to health and safety. I didn't. I spoke to the nursery manager and gave her the benefit of the doubt she said she would ensure hygiene standards in the kitchen were looked into etc.

On one occasion dd was badly hurt when a member of staff put her in a swing that was for older children (rather than babies) pushed her too hard and dd fell over and badly cut her back. Took a long time to heal and dd was in a lot of pain, she had to have a few stitches. Spoke to the nursery manager who seemed genuinely upset and promised to deal with the member of staff who had allowed this to happen.

I give these examples to show that I could have caused a major fuss for the nursery manager, reported her to OFSTED for eg but didn't. I gave her the opportunity to put things right.

Anyway, had a second dd who started at the same nursery last year. Within the first week at nursery she picked up a sickness bug. And like her sister had to be hospitalised. Couldn't believe our bad luck. I spoke to the nursery manager and she said they had deep cleaned the nursery, they cant stop the spread of bugs etc. Sent dd back to nursery when she was better only for her to pick up another sickness bug.

Decided to withdraw dd from this nursery. Had thought her sister had just been unlucky picking up every bug going from the nursery but for my dd to keep getting ill and also being hospitalised as a result was too much. Throughout my dd being off sick from the nursery (a total of 6 weeks in the end as she was so ill) the nursery charged me. I spoke to the manager and said I wasn't happy paying for my dd when a)she'd ended up being hospitalised from a bug picked up twice from nursery and b) hadnt attended for practically two months. Manager agreed I didn't have to pay the final invoice.

I thought that was it until I got a letter from a debt collecting company asking for £700 I have 3 days to pay or the baliffs will come round. Manager denys saying she let me off the final invoice.

Have no idea what to do. Don't want baliffs turning up but dont want to have to pay the £700 either which we cant afford.

You won't get bailiffs on your doorstep unless it's gone through the small claims courts first. Anyway, the reason you are being charged is that even though your daughter wasn't attending, her place was still being kept at the nursery and therefore, they couldn't have another fee paying child in. It's very normal for kids to pick up bugs from nursery, particularly when they first start. The fault in this generally lies with parents who bring their children into nursery when they are already ill.

You should have gotten it in writing.

I would seek legal advice.
I probably also would have withdrawn my child after the swing incident and not put my second child in the nursery at all. But that probably doesn't help much and hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Would the CAB be able to help?

I don't see how it's the nursery's fault if your dc are ill. Surely if it was due to the nursery surroundings all the children would be in hospital.
I think you were very lucky she let you off payment. Nurseries cannot afford to have people not pay each tme DC are ill ( which can be a lot, through no fault of theirs).
If she said she wasn't charging you though, then she just needs to tell the bailiffs to drop the proceedings.

Call the bailiffs and let them know you are in dispute about the money.

Meet with the manager and ask why you are being pursued for money she had said wouldn't need to be paid. Be very calm and ask her if she wishes to end the relationship on such a negative note as it will leave you with a lot of ill will to the nursery (a badly treated customer with a big mouth who is honest is not in their interest)

Call Ofsted and ask where you stand.

Legally the nursery may be in the right as your contract probably says that sickness days must be paid for, but to prevent ill will they would be better off letting the money go.

In truth you should have reported them in the very first instant of food poisoning and withdrawn DD1. Since you didn't report their past failings you have no record of them being at fault.

ds was never as sick as when he started nursery ... you cant blame poor hygiene its other kids and a given when starting your kids at nursery. so yabu there.

also i am not sure what the rules are there by my creche never closes except bank holidays and xmas and is paid 52 weeks of the year regardless of whether ds is out sick or not.

Google the OFT Guidelines for debt collection, generally these debt collection firms don't comply with the guidance. Then write to debt collectors and the nursery pointing out any breaches of the OFT guidance and threaten a counterclaim for your DD1s personal injury, the one where she required stitches.

It would be a complete bluff of course, but might just get them off your back.

Next time get it in writing though.

Sorry but you do owe them You can't say for sure that's where your dcs picked the bugs up anyway and you should have raised the other issues at the time rather than now relying on them as reasons not to pay. And should have got it in writing about the manager waivering the final invoice. Hindsight is great and shit at the same time.

Am sure they will accept payment spread out over a few months.

You need to check your contract with the nursery. Unless it states that you are not to pay for times when your DC is ill, you are liable to pay the bill, regardless of how much you have given them over the years.

So the nursery admitted fault when your DD1 got food poisoning?

I'm sorry, but I think you had a duty to report that to OFSTED.

I like the bit about how they can't come in to your home unless you invite them in.

It reminds me of vampires.

i cant believe someone would care for their kids so little to dump them in a hell hole that is unsafe, unhygenic and dangerous, not once but many times, not one child but multiple

and then would only have cause for concern when it comes to money being paid out!! LOL you couldnt make it up, it has to be a wind up

Did none of the other children get food poisoning? Why did you keep DD1 at the nursery and then send DD2 if it is so bad?

All children get ill at nursery and school. YABU.

As Madlizzy says, a debt collection agency is not a bailiff. They can't come into your home or repossess your goods, all they can do is contact you and ask for payment, same as the nursery could. It is v unusual to be visited on the doorstep by a collection agency, but even if this should happen you can dismiss them like any other unwanted caller. If it goes to a debt collection agency, I would advise you not to speak to them on the phone at all, deal strictly in writing so that you are not pressurised.

You have three options for dealing with this:

1. Pay in full (keep copies of everything and use Recorded Delivery post).
2. Offer to pay by instalments if you can't afford the full amount - again put your offer in writing/Recorded and keep copies. If it goes to debt collectors, negotiate with them in the same way and stick to your offer. Remember that even if court action is taken, you will have the opportunity to offer instalments to the court and affordability will be considered (but of course a CCJ would impact your credit reference file for 6 yrs).
3. Make a written complaint to the nursery explaining the reasons you are unhappy and asking for either a full or partial write-off. Threaten to send a copy of your complaint to OFSTED if the matter is not resolved. If you are offering a reduced sum in full and final settlement, make sure you get written acceptance from them before you pay it. If the nursery passes the matter to debt collectors, send a copy of your letter of complaint to them and ask for collection activity to be put on hold whilst the nursery investigates your complaint, in accordance with the Office of Fair Trading code of practice (3.8(k) OFT Debt Collection Guidance).

I agree, if the food poisoning was from the nursery then all the dc that had eaten it would have got ill. Like when you go out with your friends and some of you are dodgy the next day.

I dont for a second think that someone would go back to the same nursery after their dd ended up with stiches. Has to be a wind up?

You owe them the money, you need to contact the nursery and arrange a payment plan.

Children get every bug going when they begin nursery, that's not your nursery's fault.

If the other stuff you spoke about is true then you are the one to blame for ever sending either of your children back there.

Pay the money.

I don't think you really have a case, the incidents you describe were not serious enough for to consider reporting them and presumably you were happy with the nursery as you sent your second child. The bug your 2nd dd picked up could have co e from anywhere.

I hope she is better now.

You should have reported the incidents at the time, doing it now (or threatening to) will look like blackmail.

Did you get the agreement from the manager re the final invoice in writing?

How do you know 100% that's where the food poison came from the nursery, the stitches would of gone into the accident form.

I think the nursery manger was very kind to let you off

Most children pick up bugs in their first year or two of nursery because their imune systems are still building.

You do owe the nursery for the place they held open whilst your DD was off sick but I would be inclined to call the agency and tell them you dispute the amount and will not be paying at this time.

I would then write a letter of complaint to the nursery with you past cocerns and reference to the conversation you had about wavering the fee and see what happens then.

I managed not to pay our last month of fees at a nursery because there was an incident but I reported the nursery to ofstead and left a negative review on every online advert I could find for them.

I ended up in an online bunfight on NM's of all places and eventually I called her and told her that I would stop reviewing her ads with the truth as long as she stopped hassling me for fees, I wasn't going to pay her for neglecting my DD.

My concern was included in her next ofsted report, I was amazed how many people asked for nursery recommendations without checking the ofsted reports!

YABU
It is your debt and it needs paying. Contact the nursery and agree a payment plan.
The other issues you mention have no bearing whatsoever on your debt.

To be honest unless you have some proof that the manager agreed you didn't have to pay then you owe the money.

Seeing as you continued to send your first child, and then your second child to this nursery I doubt your complaints will be taken very seriously. Ofsted aren't going to be interested in your complaints now, months later, when you are in a dispute over money as they will appear to be malicious.

I have some concerns about this. If your dd contracted food poisoning and the nursery was identified as the source, statutorily there would have had to have been a formal report to the Health and Safety Executive, likewise with the fall from the swing that resulted in stitches.

If you negotiated with the nursery manager that the final bill would be waived, it should have been followed up in writing. Was there no exit paperwork?

Two serious reportable incidents and you sent a second child to the nursery.

All children pick up bugs at nurseries, especially at the baby stage. That's why we gave ds's nursery the required three months' notice and observed it.

This doesn't stack up.