Animal cruelty and other people's children

[RevoltingPeasant]

Not sure if this is an AIBU or a WWYD, but....

Do you intervene if you see other people's children being nasty to animals?

We went on a day trip yesterday and I saw a group of children, with their parents, deliberately taunting juvenile seagulls. (I know they're not everyone's favourite bird, but...) They were pretending to give them food, waiting till the birds got close, and then jumping at them suddenly to make them fly away. They then ran around the little park area with a massive golf umbrella, flapping it at all the ducks/ seagulls/ pigeons, making them fly off to avoid being hit or trampled. They even tried to climb onto a little park shed thing where the birds had taken refuge.

Later, we were at a pond with a big sign saying 'Please do not feed the ducks white bread as it is bad for them and will eventually kill them'. There was a boy of about 8 (i.e. well able to read), with his dad, right next to the sign, feeding the ducks....a loaf of Tesco value white bread.

I appreciate these things are not like kicking a golden retriever puppy to death. But they are clearly unethical. I can't believe people sit there watching their children do nasty things to animals. Seems to me that they are basically teaching their DC that terrifying animals is harmless fun.

WIBU to say something next time I see something like this? Or am I just an old trout of a busybody?

I would in the first case. I did this last week when I saw children chasing ducks in the park. Their parents then had the good grace to tell them off. In the second case, was there park staff you could have told?

Don't put down to maliciousness what you can put down to stupidity.

Appalling behaviour from the parents and children. I would not have been able to stop myself saying something.

Trouble is, seagulls and pigeons are largely viewed as vermin, and as such, are seen as fair game to cruel treatment.

I agree with you, they shouldn't be doing that.
As for white bread to ducks, brown bread is just as bad, as it clogs in the ducks crop and is hard to break down, but people have been feeding bread to ducks for generations, sadly it'll take more than one sign to get the point across.

I told a little boy off ,very strongly .for trying to kick a cat, and also told a grown-up off for encouraging his little boy to throw a stick at my cat who had popped over the wall into their garden to say hello.
Have also talked to children to make them stop trying to break a branch off a tree and for dropping litter (got a very rude response to that one!)

I seem to recall a thread about chasing pigeons a year or so ago. It got a bit heated. Personally, I don't care how small a pigeon's (or a seagull's) brain is or what it's fear reaction is, it's not a behaviour I would encourage in my children. I would say something in the first case.

In the second case, many people don't know that it's not a good idea to feed any kind of bread, and I'd be fairly diplomatic about pointing the sign out.

MrsT the parents were just sat there watching them, going 'LaShawn, leave the birds alone' in a languid kind of way, whilst LaShawn and her devilspawn siblings tried to jump on top of the gulls. There were four adults there and they looked a bit rough I shamefully didn't have the guts to say anything.

Fave the place was plastered in signs, it is near a nature reserve particularly known for its bird species so I think that was why. It was just particularly ironic that they were doing it right underneath one of them!

X post Faverolles. It turned out ok in the end

Well the animals can't speak for themselves so someone has to. I would and do, whenever I come across children like that, so good for you for speaking out.

There's another thread going on right now very similar to this about someone - rightly IMO - telling a kid off in a zoo for throwing stones at animals.

Yep .... I always say something if I see animals being mistreated. I don't particularly like pigeons for example but no way is it right to taunt or frighten them. I once had a go at a load of silly teenagers intent on seeing how many items (bits of stick, rubbish, paper etc) they could throw onto a swan's back along the lines of leaving it in peace because they were distressing it - had they not stopped I'd have got more forceful (verbally). Can't bear pointless mistreatment of animals and sure, I accept sometimes it's down to stupidity and ignorance rather than out and out cruelty but if me speaking out stops them causing any level of stress then I think it's worth it.

I had no idea about not feeding white or brown bread to ducks!
What can you feed them then?

cats didn't know that, will have a look. And more backbone next time!

Vaguely apropos, I saw an amusing sign in Plymouth today: 'No matter how much the pigeons coo for your attention, please ignore them' - seriously

BareBums you can get feed, I believe. DP works for a wildlife charity and says brown bread better than white, as white is really bad for their livers, although neither is ideal. He says seed is best.

Or you could just go and look at them!

I think it's a good idea to say something. I understand that most children aren't really aware of the distress that they cause, especially if their parents allow it to carry on, but I think that it's important for them to learn to treat animals with respect.

YANBU. Children will never learn if they are not told. Not sure I'd do the telling though, depends on the situation.

I wish all parents would raise their children to respect animals, it's not difficult. My 15 month old dd already understands she needs to be gentle when stroking our dog, because we've taught her from when she was very young.

yes i will always intervene when anyone, child or adult is harming any animal.

revolting ta but DCs get bored just looking

But will not feed them bread anymore

I would find it really hard to intervene because I'm a big wuss. I'd want to though. Cruelty of this kind is so often the beginning of worse to come

I wouldn't intervene if they were just chasing them. They have wings. They can fly away.
I once went mental at an italian student in london but he was actually kicking pigeons! Horrible.
Definitely wouldn't say anything about the bread - you'd just look a bit mad and rule obsessed. Almost everyone gives them white bread. It might not be good for them but don't start your campaign on a little boy trying to be kind

YANBU. I think that being cruel to animals is a huge warning sign that a person, child or adult, will be cruel to other humans. That they can be cruel to the most vulnerable is never good. I think studies were done in the USA that showed that most serial killers started out by torturing and killing animals. An enormous leap I know but I really think that some part of the 'humanity' gene is missing in people who enjoy tormenting animals.

I'm sure some children grow out of it but some won't.

I have intervened when I've experienced it and always will.

What can you feed them then?
If you got to a WWT place, they sell grain for you to feed to the wildfowl. AFAIK it's just wheat.

...my cat who had popped over the wall into their garden to say hello.

Or, more probably, to shit in their flowerbeds.

merci would have said sth to the dad, not the kid - but yes, point taken. The kids were sort of trying to jump on the birds though too, not just running after them in an excited way. Bit hard to explain. at kicking pigeons. What did he say back???

busters agreed - there is a William Hogarth engraving series (C18th) called the 'Four Stages of Cruelty' which shows a young boy starting off tormenting animals and ending up killing someone. Even back then.......

Surely we have to intervene? How will they know otherwise?

dear fecking god - only on mumsnet would a child chasing pigeons be linked to being charles manson in later life