Can I have some perspective before I tell my neighbour to piss off

[pud1]

i live in an apartment block of 12 flats with communal gardens. I get on with all the neighbours but the women next door is driving me insane. I will give you some examples of what she is like
On a weekly basis she gets up early to put every ones bins out. A few weeks ago I was outside at about 7ish to find her going through my bottle bin. When i asked her what she was doing she started having a go at me about the cardboard in my bottle bin. I explained that I had put it there to keep it dry and I was planning on pulling it out for the bin men as it would not fit I the small paper box we have and I didn't want to have to drag soggy cardboard out. She then proceeded to lecture me on the fact that it should not be in the bottle bin in the first place. In the end I politely told her that it was none of her business.
She often pulls my Dds aged 2 and 4 for doing things like putting there hands on the Walls in the hall way. I know kids hand can be sticky and dirty but they have had clean hands on these occasions and have never marked the Walls. Tbh she has had a go about so many little things I have lost count.
Then today my Dds were playing outside with 2 friends and I had let them chalk on the path. I was on the phone when she came over an dtoldnthem to stop chalking as it makes a mess and then had a go at one of there friends for leaving an Easter egg box on the floor. He was sat next to it and ha d not even finished eating it. I had drawn a hop scotch grid and she picked up the stones they were playing with and chucked them in a bush. I was sat about 10 yards away but was on the Phone. I put the phone down and asked what was wrong and informed her that it was only chalk and I would clear it up when that had finished playing.

What annoys me about her is that she adresses the kids and not me and her manner is quite frightening for young children. She makes me feel that I have no right to let the kids play in the communal garden. I am aways polite to her because I don't want to be fighting with the neighbours. When she is not having a go we chat and she is perfectly nice but then she turns. She makes me feel like a pushover as I just let her have a go but I am close to snapping.

She'd likely be the first to depict 'today's kids' as staying indoors all day, gaming. So you are doing a good job in encouraging outdoor games like Hopscotch.

Tell her firmly that she is intimidating your children.
Remind her of how important it is for children to be able to play outside.
Use your local council mediation service sooner rather than later.

Grow some balks and tell her to shove it! Seriously, you must stand up to her.

oh i had a neighbour like this once, she made everyone lives a misery. in fact one taxi driver remembered her from 20 years back and she was the same then. i made the mistake of being reasonable and she got worse. it was a flat share and one night my flatmate did tell her to piss off (not proud of that). we never heard a peep from her again!

Agent; I think I understand what you are saying but I disagree with you. Bullies are cowards and in my experience, run when challenged. I agree with you about a young person likely being perceived as the bully in such a situation. I would suggest that op could counteract this by telling her to fuck off with a smile on her face.

To be fair I don't think you should let your kids chalk on communal areas, and fingerprints do soon make walls look tatty.I am also not sure why you think she isn't allowed to speak directly to your DC? How is her manner intimidating? Does she shout, swear, threaten them.Or is it just you don't like someone else saying something they don't want to hear?

I'm usually boarderline aggressive not backwards in coming forwards myself bobble, and I don't particularly mind confronting someone about their shitty behaviour, but situations like this make me a bit edgy and are one reason why I keep myself to myself with the neighbours.

To me it's different from confronting a family member or friend you don't live close to, fall out with the neighbours and there's nowhere to escape to.

What is wrong with a bit of chalk?
That is what it is for.
The op was going to wash it off after.

Why shouldnt children touch the walls? Does this rule apply to adults too?

I second the massive cock and a fuck right off.

That makes sense Agent, but op is being harassed by this woman, ignoring her, being nice, being reasonable will not make her go away, it is encouraging her because she believes that she can get away with it.

I wouldn't ignore shitty behaviour to me or my child tbh, bullies only target people if they know they will get away with it and often the behaviour escalates until it becomes intolerable to live with.

Nothing wrong with chalk - it washes away easily enough. And there is no law against touching walls either.

Just because someone is old, it doesn't mean you have to treat them with kid gloves. A nasty old person, is just a nasty young person, a few years down the line. In fact, I actually know of an old woman who had an asbo - I think she used to throw rocks at her neighbours children. She made their lives a misery.

I think you have to stand up for yourself. Tell her if you see her going through your rubbish again, you will call the police. If your flats are rented, can you contact the land lord or housing association?

I find it very offensive for adults tell children off, when their parents are right there. It's treating you very disrespectfully and you really shouldn't put up with it. There is nothing wrong in telling her to address her remarks to you and not your children.

I think you have to do something, or she will continue to badger you. and your dc need to see their mother stick up for them, because if you don't do it, who will?

Totally agree Karma.

I can see both sides of posters points, but the minute the OP or her P swears, or appears aggressive, they have lost the arguement.

All apartment blocks have conditions about communial areas attached and the council has policies about what to put in each bin, so strickly speaking (or on paper) the neighbour isn't in the wrong, especially over littering, even if it is a Easter egg box.

The OP needs to let her know that she will not stand for pettiness, but be reasonable about it.

If the OP was to say to a mediator that she never wants her children spoken to directly, then she will come across as a crank, unless the neighbour is using offensive language.

If the DP gets to heavyhanded, the OP may find the womans family at her door. So needs to box clever.

I don't believe the OP should lay down and let the woman walk all over her, there are ways of being assertive without stooping to aggression and getting into a slanging match (which it will be).

I'm trying to be reasonable, which I know is unreasonable

I feel for the OP whatever she decides to do, just the fact that the woman is talking like that to the children would bring out the tiger in me.

I think they all have their own bins, so if the OP was putting the wrong stuff in hers, then the council would take it up with her directly. It's not up to the neighbour to police everyone else's bin!

Also, I think it would be reasonable for the OP to tell a mediator that she doesn't want a total stranger to tell her children off and to address complaints directly to the OP, as she is their parent.

Agree that swearing isn't the way to go - it would make the OP seem like the problem neighbour, which she isn't.

Thanks for allnthe replys. just to clear some things up. The appartments are bought and we do all pay a fee to a management company. So I couldn't get the council/ landlord or housing association involved. I do think it is just something I need to deal with myself. My oh has offered to speak to her but I know what he is like and diplomatic is not it. I know I have to do it myself and I think sending in the oh would seem weak.

I have ignored her and let it ride for so long as she has a villa in Spain and goes there for long periods so I do get time off from her. She is due to go away again in the next few weeks. I have to do something before the summer holidays though.

Also she is not at all an old 68. So I would not be having a go at a grey haired granny

Karma - you right we do have our own bins they are just stored together

Have you posted about her before pud? Got a dim memory of an OP whose annoying neighbour was being annoying about the shared garden, and she went off to spain all the time.

Yes I have. She was having a go about me walking past her window on which she called her personal path. She actually apologised for that one. She must have read her lease agreement

You poor thing having to put up with her for so long, maybe the chalk cock is the way to go after all

May as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb

That was actually the first incident. There have been so many since I have lost count.

I think you need to carry on as you are, but get more firm. For example with the bins, she is presumably doing you a favour by getting up early to put them out, but you beat her to it by putting yours out the evening before to avoid conflict, or just simply say 'look I realise my rubbish sorting system isn't in line with yours and since it seems to be an issue, if you don't mind I'll resume responsibility for my own bins from now on'. If she addresses the children directly then step in and take over, or if she makes a comment such as 'hands off the wall', just say 'it's a good job their hands are clean', and if she mentions something about hop-scotch or chalk drawings, just chime in with something like 'yes, it's great isn't it that they can play out in the sunshine and aren't indoors addicted to video games.' You say you get on well when she isn't nit-picking - this is worth preserving. The minute you say fuck-off or some other abusive phrase, you become the bully and the dreadful neighbour.