To think that gifted pre schoolers need to learn through play

[ReallyTired]

A bright child who is nursery age needs formal education like a hole in the head. It is desperately important that they learn the social skills they need for life. A well run nursery is good place to foster a range of skills.

If a gifted child is bored with nursery/ reception its often a sign of autism and if anything they need more learning through play rather than less. Possibly an autistic child might need an adult to show them how to play and foster good social skills. There may be bright children who need intensive help with their social skills who aren't autistic.

A really bright child will learn faster through self directed play than sitting in a classroom doing formal actvites.

hahaha at 'gifted' preschooler.

please, please, do yourself a favour and try not to seek exogenous validation of your own specialness through your children. not only will your children pick up on this and discern a certain pressure, but it will make you unhappy.

as Roosevelt said wisely; "comparison is the thief of joy". that is what you are doing: bolstering your self esteem through your child. it is an arrid and futile inheritance.

my first could speak sentences before 1, read words before 2. but her friends have caught up. it means nothing, just that she caught onto speaking and reading earlier than some. i wouldn't describe her as gifted at all. i wouldn't even know what it means and i would never label a child 'gifted' in just the same way as i wouldn't label a child 'naughty'.

anyone with experience of a wide range of children through the age groups knows that all children have their own talents, develop some skills quicker than others, then get passed by etc etc. some children have a preternatural ability to concentrate, which helps them develop their interests. i won't comment on ASD as i know so little about it, and have no direct experience. so apologies OP, if this is what you were driving at.

besides, isn't early years education all play anyway? just a bit more structured? and isn't developing social skills about 50 pct of education?

i agree with some who argue that the school days are far too long at 3-6. can't see the point in full days, but the again, who am i to argue.

Pancakeflipper - ds1 was diagnosed with ASD at 3.5yrs, but ds2 was diagnosed just after his 2nd birthday. It seems to vary from place to place.

I think this would make more sense if you had used the third paragraph to open the post, but disagree that giftedness has anything to do with it.

YANBU to think that pre-schoolers need to learn through play rather than doing formal activities in a classroom.

WTF is a gifted pre-schooler?

Classrooms are a complete mix of play and formal activities anyway...especially Reception classes.

otchayaniye sometimes the label can be important. In an academic setting gifted means IQ above a certain level. Having this label helped people to see my daughter's autism. The 'gifteness' masked the autism and she didn't get the help and support she needed. Knowing she was intellectually gifted highlighted the gap between what she was capable of and what she was actually doing, thus highlighting that something clearly wasn't right.

Speaking as someone who might these days have been labelled a "gifted" child myself (when a child), I don't give a flying jeff if my kids are "gifted" or not, nor how they play/learn. As long as they are happy, sociable and reasonably confident (I agree with your first paragraph, OP). As for the rest, let kids be kids. All I ever wanted to do as a child was to fit in and be like my friends.

Pancakeflipper - ds1 was diagnosed with ASD at 3.5yrs, but ds2 was diagnosed just after his 2nd birthday. It seems to vary from place to place

Also a second child will be spotted quicker than a first. Partly because the parents are likely to be experts and partly because the 'autism detector' was switched on with the first.

As a teacher I thought your OP was going to be about how it's silly to 'hot house' toddlers and sit them through hours of formal learning, and I was going to agree with you.

But, although children need plenty of time to play, I do think that nursery and reception classes should offer some structure. Otherwise the quiet ones tend to feel a bit insecure and the louder ones have the tendency to misbehave. Plus in my experience children tend to love structured activities. When I did a placement in a reception and nursery combined class all the children flocked to me when I set up an activity as the setting was very much into 'free play' and lots of them were quite bored.

I know where the OP is coming from. When DC3 was at playgroup, there was a little boy whose Mum kept complaining about how bored he was, and campaigned for the pre-school to do more formal learning, and a longer day (to prepare the kids for school). She was also an education professional, and I believe her husband was an Ofsted inspector. Her son also complained about being bored, but I think he had learnt that from his Mum. He was also afraid of doing things unless he could be best, so didn't run in the pancake race because he might not win.
He wasn't gifted, although no one really dared tell her this bluntly.

The very bright child at the pre-school wasn't bored, as she enjoyed playing (and perfecting her Spanish on the Spanish helper).

Technically it is possible to dx at 18 months now (with ASD0 BUT many pratitioners will not as the 'failure rate' (incorrect dx) is quite high at that point (ther eis research evidence I can ask for a link if needed, we coverd that at uni).

personally as the diagnostic guidelines on langauge etc state 'by age 3' on some areas I can;t see how you can differentiate between AS / ASD etc until 3 BUT tjhat will change with new DSM criteria anyhow.

Also my experince is that it is taking LONGER to get ds4 a dx even with one already given to ds1 and ds3 as they are worried his behaviours are copying. They're not as theya re not the same behaviours but hey ho....

Have worked in preschools for 12+years. Not sure what a gifted preschooler is? Some are brilliant at painting. Some make terrific models. Some speak clearly. Some can recognise numbers and letters. Some are wonderful little friends to each other. I could go on. If a preschooler is 'bored' the other children will be too, and the setting ought to be looking to make it more exciting.

I feel sad at the thought of a child of that age being bored. They are at the stage of life where EVERYTHING is fascinating...

Thank you for the dx info and your experiences. Interesting and appreciated.

What WIBBLYBIBBLE said.

OP what exactly is your angle here? Is your child gifted/autistic and are you unhappy with nursery provision?

My Son with Asperger's suffered greatly at nursery/school from too much forced conformity about stupid, pointless things..... we'd get phone calls to say he had removed his socks to feel the carpet and other such things which were not important AT ALL (apparently the sky would fall in if the other children copied him and took their socks off too). Nursery and primary school were not the best environment for him socially or educationally and in retrospect, if we'd known how awful it was going to be for him, he would have been HE until age 10 or 11 when he was ready for school. He was diagnosed at about 3yo.

My 3 older DS are academically very bright (2 are university age so my comment is backed up with very good academic achievement!), and they were clearly very bright at pre-school age.
One is truly gifted, genius level gifted, and it was very very clear by the time he was 18months old, that he was different to most children, and it was confirmed on testing at the schools request when he was 5, because of the difficulties he was having with work refusal and school refusal (result was mental age of 13, iq 165 and bored out of his skull). School was hell until about 13/14 years old, at which point learning becomes a bit more self directed and he was able to cope better.

So IME, Pre-schools and Primary schools are not good at getting the best out of either ASD or academically very able children (in fact, lets face it, they are probably not great at getting the best out of any child), there is far to much emphasis on conformity (socially and academically), and not enough emphasis on the needs of the individual....... despite a tendency for schools to be plastered in posters with "respect the individual" type sentiments!

strandedbear and marymary I agree that some children prefer structured activities and don't feel comfortable in unstructured settings. It's good then that they get some structure but also highlights the fact that they have skills yet to develop - how to think of play ideas for themselves, communicate with others, find their place in the group. These are important skills.

Very odd op.

I'm not sure if this is some research you're doing.. or you have a particular bee in your bonnet?

What are your sources?

Fwiw I withdrew my dd from a nursery to put her in another with more guided activities. Bout classroom learning. I think preschool children need both directed activities and self directed activities.

how does that work for an autistic child, like my brother, and one with asd who prefers order?

my iq is 160 level (i was tested throughout school) i've never been bored out of my skull. and i am no genius!

That should say not classroom learning.

I think the op may be poking fun at the parents of supposedly gifted DC who claim their DC are bored with play and need proper lessons.

Or she may have come across the parent of an NT child who has been rude and horrid during play because they are just too bright to gain anyhting from pretend play.

I recall a party which was heaven for all the four years olds there (think bouncy castle, ball pool, paddling pool, decorate your own cookies...) except one! He cired and yelled and stamped and kicked. Apparently he was bored. His mother told me he was exceptionally clever and needed constant stimulation.

Fast forward seven years and that child is not exceptionally clever. But he does still yell, stamp and kick .

wordfactory that sounds like a nightmare. How do you actually have yourchild at aged 3 officially diagnosed as gifted? I'm not knowledgeable about autism but would it be entirely unfair to suspect that parents of children with behavioural problems, try to console themselves/ excuse their children to others by claiming they are 'gifted'?

I think a genius child who can't cope with a fun party like that shouldn't go. If he goes, he has to try to behave appropriately.

'gifted' is the non-hippy version of 'indigo' (google it and weep)

bugster my friend has a gifted child (as in properly gifted not this G&T rubbish) and it became apparent very early.

I recall sitting with him when I was prgnant having very long conversations about the difference between identical and fraternal twins. i didn't think much of it as I had no experience of other three year olds.

He then taught himself to read before he attended school and could do basic maths too.

His childminder told my friend there was somehting exceptional about him and as soon as he got to school they spotted it.

At secondary level he was invited to attend a special school in the States, but my friend didn't want him to go. Instead he has a bursary for a highly academic private school with day release to university .

wordfactory is right I have come accross parents exactly how she describes.

My son has a friend who could not cope with pre school, school nursery or proper school. His mother was convinced that he was substantially brighter than the children. This child has a very high IQ (if his mother is to be believed) but he lacks emotional intelligence. His spelling is amazing and he has excellent mental arithmetic. Academically he does well, but he struggles to keep or make friends.

His problem was that he could not get social norms. He is a lonely little boy who can be aggressive at ten years old. I don't think that running away from social situations by home educating is the way forward.

Children who struggle socially need support from adults to get social cues. I also believe they need children of a similar age to test and refine their social skills. You need to make mistakes in a supportive enviroment to develop social skills.