To dislike the idea that I should respect people's religious beliefs?

[lesley33]

I don't understand or argree with the growing belief in our society that religious beliefs should automatically be respected. Why shouldn't I be able to say that what a religion beliefs is wrong or plain rubbish?

I do believe that religious belief and practices should be tolerated unless they are clearly harmful e.g. children of god that preached sex with children. But tolerating religious beliefs and expressions is very different from respecting them.
So AIBU?

Thumbmum: "Who said anything about religious views in my post? I didn't. I was talking generally and I believe it holds true for any topic/belief.

You can disagree with other people's beliefs without being rude to them. There is a difference."

Well, yes, but I'm not sure that it's that clear cut. There's being rude to and there's being rude about, isn't there? I would never say to someone, "You are a stupid idiot" - well, I might, if I'd really lost it, but you know what I mean. But if I said to them, "A belief that during Holy Communion you are really partaking of the blood and body of Christ is ludicrous," would that be rude? Or just a robust expression of a belief? (Incidentally, I wouldn't say the latter either because I am very polite and IRL go out of my way not to give offence to religious friends. I might, on the other hand, say "It's ludicrous to imagine that allowing people to set up free schools is going to improve the education system" in the context of a political debate. And I think that's what the OP was driving at.)

yanbu. There are a lot of crazy ideas justified by religion.

What I was driving at was the belief that religious views should be respected more just because they are religious views.

headinhands It's not about thinking that God will up and disappear if people around me don't think he's real. If you were to say that my husband wasn't real, I'd probably think you were deluded or trying to start an argument. If you were to say, repeatedly, that I am stupid for believing my husband is real, not only would I think you were deluded, I'd also think you were being very insulting.

lesley33 I do agree with you that religious beliefs should not be demand more consideration than any other beliefs.

I personally believe that, apart from those that do harm, all beliefs should be respected.

Assuming you're addressing me, hackmum (since it's my quote but not my name) - then I believe you can robustly disagree with someone in the way you have stated without telling them they're a bloody fool for believing it.

It's similar to the whole "blame the behaviour, not the child" - you can criticise the belief without belittling the believer.

Of course, some people would still get upset (and then they might be over-sensitive and not up for an open and honest debate) in which case, leaving them to it is probably the kindest thing to do - battering away at them about their beliefs would be unkind and rude.

Well there's no risk of that happening. I'm certain I've not said anyone was stupid when discussing views here. I might feel certain beliefs are lacking in common sense but have managed to conduct debate without it being personal.

I want to say 'no no no it's all bollocks'. I don't know why I feel the need to do this. Obviously in RL I don't say what I think. I smile and nod and let the person get on with it.

On here I get myself into a bit of trouble as I voice an opinion somewhere to one poster, and then offend the 100s of lurkers/ other posters that read it. And someone I offend might be my friend, who I would not dream of saying anything to directly.

This is a forum where we all offer our opinions, but if I want to build relationships, keep the same username, make friends on here, then I think I need to give up some of the freedoms of an anonymous board. Including being rude about people's religion.

dog - but many beliefs do some "harm". I have lost count of the number of people who have told me they don't believe in people being actively homosexual, or they love the sinner and not the sin (when referring to sexuality) and I am supposed to accept this because it is their religion. Do you really think this kind of fairly common belief isn't harmful?

I think it's pretty hard to separate out saying "I think what you believe is a load of rubbish" and "You are a fool for believing it." It's not the same as blaming the behaviour and not the child, not at all.

It is more like saying " You're a fool for believing all that, imo, but in other ways you are not foolish, so you're not a foolish person per se, just foolish when it comes to all that."

Thumbbunny: "Assuming you're addressing me, hackmum (since it's my quote but not my name) - then I believe you can robustly disagree with someone in the way you have stated without telling them they're a bloody fool for believing it. "

Sorry, I didn't get your name wrong intentionally! Thing is, in my experience religious people are hyper-sensitive to being disagreed with and will call you rude even if you just disagree with them. That's why I rarely do. If a discussion gets going on religion, I'll just sit there saying nothing until the conversation has moved on. Whereas if it was immigration or the NHS or similar, I'd express my views in no uncertain terms. Probably.

You can turn that around though lesley33 and say that nowadays people have to say that homosexuality is ok, even if doesn't match your beliefs, you are not allowed to say it, because we are to respect everyone. And I think that's right tbh.

I mean it is right that we are to respect everyone.

No, telling someone they are a fool for believing stuff that you don't believe IS rude.
Telling them that you don't believe what they do, and that YOU think it is a load of bollocks is NOT the same thing at all and I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

Nope, I think you'll find that's the opposite of what I said.

It is your belief and it does not do harm,therefore it should be respected.

headinhands sorry, I meant a general you; not you specifically. All I am trying to say is that IME it is not simply disagreeing that people find disrespectful. People cross the line when it becomes a personal attack including saying that believing in something is stupid. Very few people (on here or in real life) know how I've come to my religious beliefs. When people just assume that I can't have put any thought into it or that having these beliefs some how transforms me into a moron (when just moments ago we could have been discussing something else where my intelligence wasn't questioned), it's is a bit annoying.

You do not have to respect the belief itself, but you should try to respect a person's right to believe it. That is the difference.

It's not that hard to get your head around, surely?

marigold - People can disagree with me, fine. It is the argument that because it is my religious belief you have to respect that and can't say I am wrong in that belief, that annoys me.

I mean homosexuality is your belief and one which does not do harm therefore should be respected.

Hackmum, well they do say that in polite company it isn't done to discuss religion and politics, precisely because these things are so emotive to some people!
Bit of a wide generalisation though - I'm sure not all believers in God/gods are hypersensitive, even if the ones you have personally met are.

Hackmum, I think the difference is because religious beliefs generally inform your life more than opinions do. No doubt, if you had an opinion on immigration which didn't concur with someone who had made it their life's work to help illegal immigrants, and perhaps had been one themselves, you may watch what you said more carefully too. Religious beliefs are NOT opinions.

Respect is a good thing, and it cuts both ways. As an example, your use of God as an oath if you know it upsets people around you, wouldn't make me respect you very much. It's all good manners and give and take. It wouldn't bother me if you used it in a setting where people didn't give a toss.

I wouldn't respect you much if you licked your plate when we were having dinner in a restaurant but I wouldn't give a toss if you did it at home while watching Corrie.

Merry - I don't see why religious beliefs should be accorded any more respect that sincerely held beliefs that are not religious. I am a vegetarian - I believe it is morally wrong to kill animals for food. That is my sincerely held belief. It is just as important to me as a belief that eating pork is wrong would be to an observant Jew, or a Muslim.

I don't attack people who disagree with my views - they are free to eat meat if they wish. But equally I expect people to respect my views as much as they would if I were a Muslim or Jew.

So is it ok to disagree with gay people in their beliefs that homosexuality ok? I don't think so.