To ask what's the gravest longterm health risk - smoking, drinking or obesity?

[Proudnscary]

I drink too much. So does my dh. I'd say probably three times weekly guidelines [bublush].

We don't smoke (well I don't, he has a crafty 2 or 3 a week he thinks I don't know about [buhmm]).

We are not over weight (could possibly do with losing 7lbs each).

Dh therefore says we are fine to indulge in one vice.

He also reckons being morbidly obese and smoking are far worse than drinking.

I say bullshit.

Any doctors, researchers, nurses got a definitive answer? Say if you based it on say the ratio of 20 fags a day v bottle of wine a day v being 2 stone overweight?

I used to know a serious drug user who would only eat organic food, juices, etc. Also, I know a seriously obese person who thinks caffeine is poison but seems happy to overeat to an unhealthy level. Both v. intelligent people. A case of "name your poison" ... and delusion.

However, many people who "drink/smoke/eat way too much" do know its not good for them and do struggle - which is a bit sad but understandable.

It's not just your liver. Alcohol causes heart problems

Paques - thank you so much for that. Your post really resonates with me. And bloody well done!

Lueji - I walk about 30 mins a day but at a moderate pace, so minimal exercise really.

And actually that's not every day, that's about three or four times a week. So bit shit eh?

Effects of alcohol

Walk faster then! [bugrin] Fast enough to put your heart rate up.

I think there's huge denial in the country about the harm of alcohol. It seems it's becoming more socially acceptable to drink too much than it is to be overweight.

Look at the link, effects are widespread, affecting most organs of the body

What about your quality of life, I think you are most likely to die soonest from smoking and have the lowest morbidity from being obese with alcohol somewhere inbetween for both. Any Asian heritage and alcohol jumps to being the worst for both, I think. I also think a bottle of wine a day is a more proportionally outside the guidelines than being 2 stone overweight though and I would be surprised if you could maintain a healthy weight drinking that if you were eating properly, it's 500 calories a day you could be using for healthy foods.

What I understand about being overweight, it is only really beneficial for women around the menopause as the fat helps maintain some hormones. Being overweight pre-menopause, for your whole life, is not any sort of advantage in any study I've seen. Given that the main advantage is a reduced chance of osteoporosis and that we don't fully understand why elderly people die so quickly after breaking a bone, there is an awful lot we don't yet know and shouldn't be encouraging people that it is fine and healthy to be overweight (except the athletes etc, who are not likely to be worried about it). I know how easy it is to cling to something you want to hear and it is irresponsible to encourage people in this way.

In my opinion smoking is the worst for your health. However alcoholism can have a more detrimental effect on your life and that of others affected by it.

Interesting question! All the stats show smoking to be highly dangerous - about half of smokers die from a smoking-related illness. Smoking increases your risk of lung cancer nine fold, something similar for COPD, also increases your risks of stroke, cancers of the oesophagus, throat, heart disease, etc etc.

But it surely depends how much, doesn't it, and for how long? Smoking usually takes at least 30 years to kill you, often more, whereas you can actually drink yourself to death in a couple of years if you put your mind to it. Look at Amy Winehouse.

So given your equation of bottle a wine a day vs 20 fags a day vs two stone overweight, I would guess (am not an HCP!!) that the bottle of wine is probably going to do the most damage and being overweight the least. But I don't know.

Stop drinking for a 2 weeks. If you can't, or you find it really hard, you have a real problem.
If you do manage it, think about how much better you are sleeping, how much clearer you feel mentally, how your extra 7 lbs in weight has magically melted away, and how you have loads more energy (not to mention cash).
After that, you may not want to resume drinking to the extent that you have been doing.
Alcohol abuse is an slow insidious way to kill yourself, and the social acceptability of it makes it all the more dangerous.
I say this as someone who drinks, and sometimes too much, but I lost my dad to alcohol related illness, and it's no joke.

The fact that you are posting on this shows that you are actually a bit worried about it, so now would seem to be the time to tackle it, before it gets worse. And un-tackled it does get worse.

The thing that shocked me was the NHS advert about the risks of too much alcohol where they said that it increased the risk of mouth cancer. Now I realise an increased risk of it would probably still be fairly low if the original risk was low, but it still scared me a bit and made me talk DH into cutting right down

I think all of the above have risks, sometimes it's a risk that resonates that can be the catalist to change, for example I am trying to lose weight at the moment, the risk of becoming diabetic (and therefore risk of blindness, limb amputation) scares me more than say the risk of heart disease. There is no logical reason for this, one is not 'better' than another, but sometimes it can take a specific fear or reason to make someone change

Statistically, on average, over whole population, I'm sure it works out as
smoking > overweight > drinking, risk wise. So from govt. POV, smoking is top priority, Obesity 2nd, drink 3rd. Any of them alone can kill, of course. So averages tell OP nothing about her best priorities. My mother had all 3 problems & I mostly blame her depression & smoking for her early death.

Wonder where depression fits in that picture? Probably just below obesity. On average.

Depression makes you more likely to "self medicate" with excessive alcohol consumption and smoking. Not enough attention is paid to mental health in this country.

... and (excess) alcohol is also a depressant, making it a bit of a vicious circle

It all depends on how severe each of the things are. Being a few pounds overweight isn't going to effect you much, neither is having the odd drink here and there. Smoking just a couple a day will highly increase your chances of getting some nasty disease, so I would say that's worse.

The danger lies in one's definition of 'moderation'. With both obesity- and alcohol-related illnesses, early symptoms are hard to spot and a little becomes regular becomes too much very easily.

An uncle of mine was very slim and very fit, but drank and smoked a lot and died of throat cancer in his mid 50s. By the time he had any symptoms, it was too late.

smoking and drinking are very bad news together, friend of mine died at 55 despite healthy eating and being sporty and skinny - oral cancer and cancer of the oesophagus as a result of daily red wine + smoking since she was 16.

Excellent post, NowThenWreck

Nowthenwreck - as it happens I had decided to go two weeks without drinking after the Easter weekend. I have done it before, about a year ago. I found it surprisingly easy - but dh did it too. I was staggered he agreed to it. I've told him I'm doing it again but he's not said he will too.

We do often go two days without a drink during the week. Not brilliant though is it?

After that I will start my more moderate plan. If I can't stick to it and the units start going up again then I guess I need to consider giving up completely.

I have always found that whatever i enjoy the most is the worst for my health... sods law innit

They have very different risk profiles which makes it difficult to compare. Alcohol seems to have a "j-shaped" risk profile - small amount of alcohol if anything healthier than complete abstaining, but after a certain point the damage done goes up very sharply and out and out alcoholism can kill you very quickly. Whereas smoking is bad for you from the first cigarette.

I'd say that light/moderate smoking is probably worse than light/moderate drinking but that the heaviest drinkers are probably destroying themselves quicker than the heaviest smokers.

Proud, I really would recommend you find an appropriate alternative to drink - it will make the giving up much easier.

Also, be careful of e.g. not drinking at all in the week and then having more than usual at the weekend - your liver makes the enzymes for detoxifying alcohol on an as-needed basis, but if you need them regularly, it will keep a pool of them available so the alcohol can be quickly disposed of. When you stop drinking for a period of time (ok, probably longer than 5 days but definitely less than 2 weeks) the liver will no longer keep this pool of enzymes available, so will need to make them from scratch when you take alcohol in again. This is why a) your "tolerance" to alcohol goes down after a break, and b) why binge-drinking is worse for you than regular low intake.

Ok Thumb - thanks so much for that.

This thread has been the kick up the butt I needed.

Just spoke to dh again and said I felt frightened. He was open to talking about it and said he'd support me in my two weeks of sobriety!

I said the irony is we always, like everyone on here, trying to do our best for the kids - support them, help them through hard times, equip them for the future - but if we are boozing like this we might not be around for their future.

I think if you compare like for like and focus on what exactly it's doing to your insides it might give you some perspective.

Esentially drinking means shoving a load of stuff into your body that your body should not naturally have to deal with. The act of inebriation is in fact you poisoning yourself - your body is 'shutting down' because it knows it's got a dodgy chemical inside it.

Nicotine is a hugely addictive drug but shoving tar in you lungs is the most bizarrely unnatural thing you could ever do to one of your most sensitive organs.

And fat is a problem, but it's a reversible one (try and catch the Panorama progrmme about weight loss a few weeks ago where the guy lost all his inner body fat by speed cycling for one minute a week - I kid you not).

With alcohol, the benefits can easily disguise negatives. Work on the benefits - the good laugh, the relaxed atmophere, try and create those at home without the drink. And if you do choose to drink, decide whether it's going to be worth it. I only ever drink if I'm going out - setting rule like that may help. And forget about dh giving up, he will definitely want to do it his way from what you are saying.

The danger lies in one's definition of 'moderation'. With both obesity- and alcohol-related illnesses, early symptoms are hard to spot and a little becomes regular becomes too much very easily.

I think sticking to the 14 units a week and below the Obese body mass index levels is pretty safe. Smoking though is a killer, if you look at insurance and health calculators.

Fwiw I think the thing that is underplayed is Being Active - my observation is that theer are a lot of sprightly older people who drink/smoke/eat bad things/etc but who are active throughout their lives.