70 year old midwives?

[Ispywith]

Do you think the Government is BU to make all midwives work until they are 68 +? Midwives have to decide whether to take this offer (rather than 60/65 as previously) or to take serious industrial action. What are your views on being looked after by a 70 year old midwife who is on her 3rd 13 hour shift with no breaks? I think it is going to be unsafe for mothers and babies. Some 68/70 year olds are fit and healthy but doing this job - not so sure it is do-able for most. What's your thoughts?

If the cake stuffing, obese midwives on OBEM are in any way representative of their profession then in a few years time we're going to be seeing regular reports of elderly midwives dropping dead on nightshifts.

ShellyBoobs - yes JSA might be cheaper than pensions but it would be nice if the govt considered the bigger picture/long term rather than just the basic figures. What's the real cost going to be of having a generation of long term unemployed, unskilled/losing skills/no expereinced NEETs.

I know a number of older social workers. One was an agency worker, aged 72, she fell asleep in meetings...She could not operate the computer system and gave all minutes/notes etc to the admin staff to put on system, who did not have the capacity to carry out the amount of work she passed on. She did not last long.

Another social worker is in her early 60's. She struggles with the computer system, despite having worked in the same job for the last decade or so. She absolutely hates working after 5pm, and has to be instructed by her line manager to actually support colleagues on visits.

I have no doubt that these people have a wealth of knowledge and experience, but they can't do the frontline work the way they might have been able to in their prime.

I have been in hospital twice in the last couple of years. The first hospital I was in employed mainly young nurses recently graduated from college. The second employed mainly older nurses who had been trained in the old fashion 'on the ward' way. There was absolutely no comparison. The older nurses were reassuring, calm, competent and genuinely interested in the patients. The younger nurses were thrown if anything didn't go according to the text book and really didn't inspire confidence when you were feeling ill and uncomfortable. I definitely think older more experienced nurses are waaay better than young graduates.

Wow! My mum is a retired social worker in her sixties and could probably 'out computer' everyone here. I really hate this attitude people have towards older members of our society. Not everyone in their sixties and seventies is some doddery old fuck without a brain.

LeQueen - Can't agree. I would want someone anyone who was fresh, resilient, happy to be at work, keen to particiapte and able to maintain their level of function regardless of pressure, conditions, workload and so on. Couldn't care less their age tbh.

Younger midwives have a very important role to play with some younger vulnerable mums who may interpret a certain age as authority and therefore have trust/respect issues. Also perhaps with very active labouring women (I'm recently struggling with very dynamic labours and water births). As do older midwives. A good age and skill mix is absolutely vital for a 'good' unit.

I am obese. I apologise to all those who's care may have been compromised The citalopram the work has driven me to has meant a stone in weight has piled on in 6 weeks. Sorry everyone . My norks also weigh a tonne, especially after the breastfeeding, and I have upper back pain all the time. Again, apologies.

DuelingFanjo - absolutely. The issue is to do with choice and personal circumstances. There are also some somewhat negative attitudes towards younger workers as well tbh.

Well by time I have got into Uni to study Midwifery and then finally finished so ready to work I will be 42. I would hope for at lest 20 years in my chosen career, 25 at a push if I was healthy enough. I do regret not going to train 10 years ago as it now means less time to actually deliver babies. I am assuming and hoping though that as MW's get older they can move away from the delivery suite if they want to.

We will all be working longer soon and unfortunately for some that means less time to enjoy their retirement. My gran died just before she turned 90 but was fit and active right up until 85, dp's gran died in her early 60's and was in ill health with limited mobility for years before. Some people will be able to work longer and some won't.

Frankly its shit. Work people like dogs, keep them going til they drop, sue their arses when they fuck up because they havent noticed the woman having a pph in room 2 because the woman in room 4 is pushing.

cant wait.

Ok now starting to rethink my chosen career[bushock]
No seriously I always knew it would be a hard demanding career but I was still hoping for the rewarding part of it. I guess with all the cuts mounting even more pressure on MW's the rewards pale against the aches and pains and the mountains of paperwork.

They say we are all going to live longer so costing more in pensions, maybe by raising the retirement age the govt are trying to get back to the times retirement was started where we retired then died the next year.

Another knackered midwife here at the ripe old age of 29. I'm exhausted now, I leave work physically and mentally drained, I fret and stress about potential mistakes I might have made now, never mind when my mind not be quite as sharp. In 40 years time. I get lower back ache after 13 hours non stop on my feet, the heat can feel oppressive (and that's without hot flushes that ahem, a certain age can bring) the dexterity needed to stitch someone's chuff back together is unreal, not to mention the eyesight. There Is one midwife of advanced years at my unit, she's formidable and it is quite right she should work for as long as she feels able but for me it's just a reality I feel I can cope with, which means either giving up a job that despite all the above I love, early enough to get another less stressful, less manual job whilst I'm still employable, or flogging myself to death for the NHS.

This situation was brought up on Question Time last year. They talked about nurses, police, fire fighters, etc not been able to work till 68 like you might be able to in say an office job.

The minister who was tehre basicly said there is no such thing as a job for life/career for life. People doing these sort of jobs should expect to have to leave at about 55 and then go and find a different career.

When he was pressed on how easy it would be for loads of 55 year olds to be able to retrain/start a new career at that age he did actually mention b&q. Which made me laugh, I did get the impression he thought that we could all walk into jobs at b&q once we hit 55.

ANd that the minimum wage would pay the mortgage by some sort of NHS ex-employee fairy dust? I have no problem at all with people choosing to leave earlier than 68 due to their own needs - what I do have a problem with is their pension being knackered because of it. And the new pension does whop your ass for leaving early.

I completely onderstand the need to have people work longer, as we are living longer and can't afford pensions for such a long time. But bear in mind that under the original NHS pension scheme (pre 1994 I think) midwives had a special excemption to leave early at 55 without loss of pension rights, in recognition of the potentially unmaintainable nature of the work.

The nature of the work hasn't not gone away, it has infact been condensed and concentrated. However the recognition of this has been removed gradually over 2 big pension reforms. Arseholes [buangry]

That should be not a reality I can cope with.

There's midwives I know in their 40s who are jumping ship now because of this issue. They want to go while they're still young enough to retrain in a different career.

So fellow midwives on here, what we gonna do about it!? Some of the midwives where I work are saying they are not going to vote as it doesn't affect them as their pension is protected. My feelings towards this is, they are affected as when they need health care themselves this could be by some knackered out nurse who doesn't want to be there! Or their grandchild is harmed as a result of a knackered out midwife making a mistake! This does directly affect them! If this goes through then the quality of care the NHS can offer will fall....Please talk to your colleges.....

Viva I am 33 and been qualified 10 years....this is a serious thought I have been having. Just how to do it with a mortgage and two small children myself. Makes me want to cry....love the job and thought I would forever but things are so bad even now with all the cuts, let alone the thought of this happening....a bad time for midwifery services

I'm afraid I feel it's a done deal Ispywith. We could campaign and fight but, ultimately, we have no power and the government are decided.

Sorry for the negativity but it's how I feel

I think it's going to happen as well regardless of what we do. Though interesting to get that questionnaire thingy from the rcm the other week asking if we are prepare to undertake serious and sustained industrial action.

I don't think enough people would strike though. Midwives care about the women too much. I can't imagine our unit leaving labour ward unstaffed. Never mind the ones who say they won't be affected, can't afford to strike, etc.

reading these opinions with great interest, I am applying to do midwifery and will be 40 when I start the course if I get on first time which is quite unlikely. I understand that midwifery is the most litigated art of the nhs already, I wonder what effects working till much older will have on this. You hear constantly about shortages of midwives, but getting a place at uni is virtually impossible and getting a job after uni is not that easy either. there are definatly a lot of issues that need looking at although I guess the chances arent high in the vurrent climate.

Ispywith, I don't know what the answer is, midwives need to get more political, for too long we have been 'done to'. Our main union is as effective as a chocolate fireguard and our governing body is far more interested in protecting the public from us than protecting us from the government. I think there are the beginnings of rumblings of discontent though, certainly where I work there is more talk of 'getting the unions involved', 'standing up for purse VE's and'

Oh hahahahaha, that was an autcorrect but given the topic an apt one I think.

It should have read 'standing up for ourselves' and 'working to rule'. The amount of unpaid overtime we do, working through breaks, going that extra mile. If we stopped doing anything but basic woman centred care the service would be on it's knees and we may well begin to get a voice.

yeah but they have us by the goolies. if we do work to rule, take breaks and stictly to shift times we will knowingly expose those we care for to risk.

I mean if we walk away from a mum tryin to attach a non-feeding baby, we will be professionaly responsible for the inpact of that. Despite our needs to eat, wee and rest we are responsible for the people in our care. Downside of autonomy.

What can be done?

It's ridiculous. Sometimes we have to work 13.5 hour shifts in the care home and that's without a proper break. We're on our knees by the end of the shift. Most of the older nurses that I've come across are totally knackered by the time they're late 50s

I don't know what the answer is, I mean no one wants to strike but perhaps it's the only way to get a voice.